Canadian Heritage Committee on June 15th, 2006

[Lyn Elliot Sherwood]

I think this question may actually touch both Mr. Blais and me.

The department has a number of programs to support the development of online content through the culture online program under Monsieur Blais. A part of that is the Virtual Museum of Canada. Library and Archives Canada also has a very significant website.

The department itself wouldn't normally develop content. It would be a proposal from an external group that is illegible for one of the programs to actually put that kind of content together.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Malo.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon and welcome.

I don't know whether you can answer my question. Are any audits underway on culture and heritage?

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes. We're conducting a follow-up on built heritage. We'll report in about a year, in February 2007.

We're also the auditors of the museums. That's another aspect of the portfolio. We conduct special examinations, that is to say an audit of the overall management of each of the museums. The reports are submitted to the boards of directors, but they are made public.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

So, for the moment, there's no specific study plan or specific study request?

[Sheila Fraser]

There's the follow-up on built heritage.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

As you know, Bill C-2, the Accountability Act, has been examined in committee and will soon be debated in the House. Clause 262 of the bill provides that, every five years, the departments will have to assess the relevance and effectiveness of the grants and contributions programs in effect. So it creates a statutory obligation.

Do you think Bill C-2 will have any particular impact on the administration of the programs of the Department of Canadian Heritage?

[Sheila Fraser]

The department's officials would perhaps be better able to answer that question than I am. We definitely believe that program evaluation is an important part of their management.

We haven't audited all the evaluation services in government, although we were considering doing one in a few years. I believe we already have an obligation to conduct evaluations of certain programs, but it would be up to the department to say whether doing them every five years will greatly change current practices.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

In the normal cycle of the program in a department, there are always evaluations, and they're conducted on average every five years or so. I'm not an expert on Bill C-2, and I'm not speaking out on the subject, but it changes nothing in current practice. It may be every three years or more, based on the conditions of Treasury Board's approval.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

In the recommendations and potential solutions you offer with regard to the accountability of the department and Telefilm Canada, you recommended that Canadian Heritage prepare to modernize the Telefilm Canada Act.

Can you provide us with more details on that subject?

[Jean-François Bernier]

Definitely.

Earlier we talked about Bill C-18, which was passed in the last Parliament. That bill was in response, in particular, to one remark by the Auditor General. Its purpose was to update Telefilm Canada's mandate.

We're currently working to modernize the crown corporation. We will be developing proposals for the minister concerning the governance structure of the Crown corporation, its financial powers and its powers in general, all that in the context of the act.

So we're working on this file, and it will be submitted at the appropriate time, if the government wishes.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

So there's no specific schedule.

Do you think that the committee can make some contribution to that modernization proposal?

[Jean-François Bernier]

I believe committee members have already made proposals, in particular in the two reports they tabled a week or two ago. They contain proposals on Telefilm's governance in particular.

Committee members also made certain comments during the study of Bill C-18.

So we're going to integrate all that in order to make proposals that the government sees fit or does not see fit to—

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

So there's no specific timetable?

[Jean-François Bernier]

No, there's no specific timetable.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

I'd like to add that one of the challenges in the development of a bill of this kind is that the experts are monopolized by Bill C-2. It entails exactly the same issues. Consequently, the same people, the same legal experts are working on this bill, which is somewhat delaying our work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Warkentin, go ahead, please.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Ms. Fraser, for coming and speaking to our committee. It seems like we've seen each other a fair bit in the last little while.

I'm not going to disappoint you. I'm going to lead out my questioning with the same thing I usually lead it out with, and that's with the buildings that the government owns. You have pointed out that two-thirds of the structures that you looked at were basically in a condition that was not acceptable or was not at a level that we'd like to see. Has there been any assessment as to what type of dollar figure would be required to bring the real estate that you talked about to a level we would like to see it at?

[Sheila Fraser]

To my knowledge, there hasn't been. We did not include that in our report. I should point out that the assessment as to the condition was made by the department, and you're right: two-thirds were judged poor to fair. Obviously, depending on the condition, different actions would need to be undertaken. Some would be to restore; others could be to simply try to preserve it as it is.

So we're not aware. I don't know--the department might have done some more work on that--but I believe at the time of our audit there wasn't an overall costing of how that would be done.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

So for the most part, we're talking about age being the biggest issue with these buildings, or is the actual issue that the elements have affected these buildings?

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes, there were issues. For example, Fort Henry was one of the ones at the time. I know that since then there have been funds put in to do work there. There were other places we mentioned, but these are mainly the historic sites. So it's the wear and tear and the age of these that are creating many of the problems.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

So this deficit is not documented anywhere in terms of what this might in the future cost?

[Sheila Fraser]

You would have to ask the department.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you.