Evidence of meeting #10 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bbc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
How is that tax collected from the population? Are people taxed when they buy a television set? Is it done on a monthly basis?
9:35 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
The legislation requires that everyone who has a set is obliged to pay the fee annually, but we allow people to pay it in instalments if they prefer. The fee applies per household. When someone buys a television we are notified of their purchase and their name and address. If that household does not have a licence, we then write to them asking them to license themselves.
Of course, as in Canada and no doubt elsewhere in the world, the vast majority of homes in the U.K. have a television licence. We do write to every home in the U.K. each year to ask them to renew their television licence. That's how the licence fee is collected.
Most people now have simply arranged to pay their licence fee by direct debit from their bank account, so it's not a very onerous requirement for them. We also accept payments over the counter, by cheque, by cash, by credit card, and online.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you very much for that.
We'll move on to Mr. Siksay.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Mr. White and Mr. Wilson, for taking the time to be with us today. We very much appreciate it.
I wonder whether you could say a little more about the governance structure. I know there's the BBC Trust and the executive board. Could you say a little bit about the various responsibilities they each have and how that structure differs from what was in place before the recent changes?
9:40 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
There are, as I say, 12 members of the trust. They're appointed by government. The idea in appointing them is that some of them have specific responsibilities. So, for example, we have a trustee for Scotland, a trustee for Wales, a trustee for Northern Ireland, and a trustee who has specific interest in the English regions. They come with a variety of backgrounds. Some of them have spent time in the broadcasting industry; others have had distinguished business careers, or in some cases careers elsewhere in the public service. We have, for example, a distinguished doctor as one of the 12.
Their role is to set the overall framework in which the BBC operates. I have mentioned already the purpose plans, which are drawn up in accordance with the six public purposes of the BBC. Those set out in a general way how the BBC ought to go about, for example, promoting education and learning.
The trust also approves and sets service licences, so that every service we have is told what its objectives are, what its scope is, and what its limits are.
They also, as I mentioned before, have a role in looking at any proposals we may have to make significant changes to any of our services or to start new services. All these things are within the trust's remit.
Finally, of course, they have the job of looking at our overall budget strategy, not going down into the detail of where every penny is spent but looking at how our budget priorities reflect what they feel the general priorities of the BBC should be.
Above all, the job of the trust is to represent the licence payer to see that we're meeting our public purposes, to see that we're offering real public value, and to see that we're offering value for money. So the other thing they have is a major role in auditing the BBC to ensure that we don't waste money, that we're as efficient as we can be, that we offer the maximum possible value.
Finally, of course, they are a source of help for licence payers who want to complain about any of our services. If you want to complain about the BBC, you can go directly to the executive and write to the controller of BBC One and say, “That program yesterday was a disgrace.” If you're not satisfied with what he has to say about it, you can take it further and go to the trust and ask them to take forward your concerns.
Some of that is similar to what the governors did, but the governors never had quite the same role of assessment of public services that the trustees have now. They never had the approval power for new services or for changes to services. They are now a good deal more independent than the governors were. They have, for example, a unit of advisers, about 30 people, whose job it is solely to advise them and to scrutinize proposals from the executive.
Within that framework, the executive's job is to get on with the day-to-day running of the BBC and to do all the things that are within that remit: to commission programming, to manage budgets within the overall framework set by the trust, and to run the BBC from day to day.
9:40 a.m.
Deputy, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
Let me add that the trust has also done a considerable amount of work in terms of the openness and transparency through which it operates. For instance, BBC management proposals for new services, for trials of new services--particularly the new services--are consulted on publicly. But also, for instance, summaries of their board minutes are published online, and they hold regular consultation sessions with licence fee payers. I think there's a greater emphasis in their work, when compared with the previous governors', on openness and transparency.
9:45 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
That's absolutely right. It is much more open than the old system used to be.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Can you tell us how folks are appointed to the trust or the executive board? If there are established criteria, what are they?
9:45 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
Appointments to the trust are formally made by Her Majesty the Queen, with advice from the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. So we're not involved in the criteria for selecting members of the trust.
The trust then appoints the chairman of the executive board and the director general. Below them are the members of the executive board, who are appointed by the director general. It's for him to decide who he wants and what qualifications he's looking for in those appointments.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
I understand there are also audience councils, and trust members have a particular relationship, especially if they are regional representatives on the trust. Can you say something more about how that system works?
9:45 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
The audience councils are one way--but by no means the only way--of trying to assess public opinion. People who are interested in the BBC and what it does are invited to become members of the various audience councils. They hold regular meetings, and the trustee who has responsibility for that regional nation attends. They have a wide-ranging remit to comment on the BBC's services, offer feedback to the trust, and raise questions with them.
I think the trust would be keen to emphasize that is not the only way in which we seek to gauge public opinion. We do regular polling. We do a lot of public consultation, as Daniel mentioned earlier, whenever we have a new proposal for a new service. We try very hard to get the public to take an interest in what we do.
That process has been absolutely transformed in recent years by BBC online. In the past--and I think this is a problem familiar to many public bodies--you would try to get the public to comment on something, do everything you could to contact them, and end up with perhaps half a dozen letters. Now several thousand people regularly email us, offering views on message boards right across the online site. We are not short of feedback from the public now, and that's an enormous advantage to us, even though sometimes, to be honest, we can create so much feedback that it becomes overwhelming. But that is very much better than the half a dozen letters we used to get in the past.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you for that.
Mr. Siksay, hopefully we can come back with some other questions from you.
Mr. Fast, please.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both of you for making yourselves available today to share your wisdom with us.
In our review of the role of the public broadcaster here in Canada, this committee has identified a number of prevailing themes. One of them is emerging technologies. Another one is the challenge of representing the many regions across a rather large country. But the third one is the whole issue of funding. That has been at the forefront of our discussions and has certainly been raised right across the country.
I'd like to ask you a few questions about how the BBC is funded. Can you tell us first of all what the total public requisition is?
9:45 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
The licence fees paid to the BBC amount to approximately £3 billion per annum.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
A normal licence fee is £135.50. There are some reduced fees for blind people and for people who still have black and white sets. But most people pay £135.50. That of course is a per household figure rather than a per capita figure. To get a per capita figure you would divide the £3 billion by the population of the U.K., which is 60 million people. So it comes to about £50 a head.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
When those public funds are delivered to the BBC, are they delivered as a global sum, or are there specific funding envelopes directed to specific programs?
9:50 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
The amount of licence fee attributed to the BBC is set by Parliament. We receive the annual grants in 12 monthly instalments. There are a lot of strings attached by Parliament to that sum. It's felt that the independence of the BBC means it should be the trustees who set the overall framework in which that money is spent.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
What role, if any, does the national government play in providing policy direction for the BBC?
9:50 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
Apart from agreeing to the agreement and issuing the charter every 10 years or so, on a day-to-day basis, there is none.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right.
I'd like to also address the issue of emerging technologies. We've received some notes, and a good backgrounder, on how BBC delivers some of its digital programs. It has been one of the challenges here in Canada. It appears that the BBC has been a leader in moving the nation into the digital age. In Canada it has been the exact opposite; CBC appears to be a follower rather than a leader.
Can you give us a general description of how you achieved that leadership role and how that's enabled you to fulfill the mandate and the charter you've now signed?
9:50 a.m.
Chief Advisor, Public Policy, British Broadcasting Corporation
I think this very much comes down to the vision of one of our previous directors general, Lord Birt. Back in the 1990s, when, to be honest, many people were skeptical that the BBC should have a role online, he felt very strongly about it. Some people felt this was not for the BBC and that we should stick to what we did best--television and radio. John Birt had the vision to see that with the convergence in technologies, even 10 to 12 years ago, there would eventually be little distinction between radio, television, and online. If you're using the iPlayer today, are you online, watching television, or listening to the radio, and does it matter? There is a very exciting opportunity for audiences, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, to get more value out of programs they might otherwise miss. I think it has been a great success for us.
We began with text services online. There was no broadband in those days. Those text services were very strongly linked to our already popular television and radio services. They were promoted from those television and radio services. People who watched BBC One and saw a program, let's say about life in the Amazon rainforest by David Attenborough, and wanted to find out more, would be directed to the website where there would be more material. Some of it would be especially structured, for example, for children, who might be doing projects at school and that sort of thing.
There was always a strong link between our television and radio services and the online service. People started to think there must be something to this online business after all. It seems amazing that we're only talking about 10 or 15 years ago. In those days there were a lot of people who felt there was no real interest in the Internet, in online, and that it wasn't really anything to do with them. But as soon as they realized there was content that could attract them, they wanted to explore.
We looked at this a little while ago. It's very hard to be absolutely sure why someone went online in the first place. Some people were attracted by other things, but we reckon there are several million people in the U.K. who first bought a computer and an Internet connection simply because of the BBC's services, and then they discovered the rest of the Internet through us. That's quite an achievement. I think we're now driving a great deal of the move from narrowband to broadband, again, through services like our iPlayer, which I mentioned earlier, that give people on-demand access to audiovisual content.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you very much for that, Mr. White.
We'll return to Mr. Bélanger, please.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. White, I have a few quick matters. Does the licence fee also cover the radio networks, or BBC radio?