I think the way we've tried to do it really is to work in partnership with the independent producers and the other rights holders that we have to work with and try to take them through the journey of how people are accessing content now.
To begin with, and this was a couple of years ago now when we last negotiated the terms, it was a matter of really demonstrating how usage had changed, how on-demand was very much more important to audiences, and also going back to this point that the committee has mentioned about audience fragmentation. I think once we raised those issues with the rights holders, it became clear that it was in everyone's interest to have a more flexible approach, where we had platform-neutral access to rights and, for instance, things like the ability to show our programs on mobile phones, even if produced by independent producers, or for catch-up services, as Wilfert mentioned, factored into the deal.
So in terms of where that left us in terms of the value for money, I think it's fair to say we paid a little extra for those additional rights we were being granted for being able to have the catch-up services. But we didn't pay too much more because we recognized a lot of people using the additional on-demand service would be watching that as a substitution for watching it on traditional television channels.