Canadian Heritage Committee on March 11th, 2008

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I've tolerated this for the last five to 10 minutes. It's an attempt to go outside the scope of this particular hearing. This is simply to establish the qualifications of Mr. Patrone. We all understand that. This is not about the process by which he was actually nominated. That's the prerogative of the government.

Could we please, Mr. Chair, focus on the scope of this particular committee meeting--the qualifications of Mr. Patrone? I'd be glad to start questioning if they're not prepared to ask those questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I must say that I've tried to stay on course. This will be about qualifications.

How governments go about filling some of these positions has, I suppose, gone on before. I'm just asking the committee to ask for qualifications and to try to stick a little closer to that. If there is anything else but that, or if we're going to stay on that type of questioning, then I will have to make a ruling.

Go ahead, Madam Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Mr. Fast presented a point of order. I would like to ask you a question with regard to that point of order.

If qualifications alone are what we discuss when we discuss an appointment, surely in terms of transparency and all those other reasons, one may ask questions about a conflict of interest or about ethical breaches that one feels may make a person not qualified on that basis. Qualifications, in my understanding, when one interviews anyone, are not only about their academic past or what their job description is or has been; it is to determine whether or not the person is ethically and in other ways fit or qualified to be doing the things that they're doing. These are public positions.

I believe that some of the questions being asked are within that prerogative with regard to ethical and/or different qualifications. Surely if all we're going to talk about is academic and work qualifications, we are missing the point of this whole thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I will ask Ms. Mourani to please continue with her questions and to try to keep them to the qualifications of our witness.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

You have three minutes left. During the--

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Patrone, if I am asking you how you knew Mr. MacDonell, it is because I am trying to understand the difference between you and someone else with the same qualifications. That is what I am trying to understand, Mr. Chairman.

You say that you applied for the position. Were there other candidates? How did this actually work? Why were you the person chosen for the position?

[Marc Patrone]

The member asks a valid question.

Frankly, I don't know if there were other candidates spoken to. That is perhaps a question for officials over at Canadian Heritage. There may very well have been.

In terms of my own qualifications, you have seen my CV. I have 27 or 28 years' experience in the industry. Most of that time was spent as a journalist, although some of that time was certainly spent, Mr. Chair, on the technical side of the business.

Why was I chosen? I suspect it had a lot to do with what I bring to the table in terms of that experience. As you are aware, the CRTC oversees broadcasting. There is a journalist already among our commissioners. Perhaps I bring an east coast perspective to the proceedings. We didn't have an Atlantic representative among the national commissioners. Now we do. We do have a regional commissioner who is from Nova Scotia, but not on the national side.

I believe I was chosen because of what I bring to the table in terms of those skills, and whether or not other people were interviewed for the position, I cannot say, Mr. Chair. I simply don't know.

Other people may very well have been interviewed, but let's face facts. Not everybody who lives in Atlantic Canada, with those types of qualifications, wants to move to Ottawa. Some people want to continue living there.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I understand that you are saying that you simply submitted your name and that you had the required qualifications for the position and therefore you were chosen. It has nothing to do with your political choice, nothing to do with your connections with the Conservative government, even though Mr. MacDonell allegedly called you about this. In your opinion, it is because of your skills and not because you had run as a Conservative party candidate or because you knew Mr. MacKay's chief of staff. It has nothing to do with any of that, but only because of your skills that you were chosen, is that right?

[Marc Patrone]

The member encapsulates my thoughts entirely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you for coming today, Mr. Patrone.

I want to get at what you bring to the job and why you would have been recruited for it. I gather you were recruited and didn't apply. This wasn't your initiative, to seek an appointment to the CRTC.

[Marc Patrone]

On the initial interest, frankly, I didn't know there was an opening on the CRTC. I was just going about my business as a journalist, as I had been for many years, through you, Mr. Chair, and there was an expression of interest on the part of officials with the government. When I was told about the position, it immediately struck me as something I would love to do, having been involved in broadcasting for a long time. To be involved in the regulatory side, frankly, struck me as being an incredible opportunity, so I took whatever steps I needed to take in order to make sure that interest was reciprocated.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

In that initial conversation, was there any discussion of your qualifications and what explicitly you'd bring to that position when they were recruiting you? Did they discuss the kinds of qualifications you had and what was needed for the position they were looking at?

[Marc Patrone]

There was a lengthy process that went on, through the initial expression of interest to the point at which the appointment was made, and that process included an interview involving a number of people--Mr. Enwerekowe being one of them. There was someone from the Prime Minister's Office, a special assistant to the Minister of Industry, as well as the director general for broadcasting policy and programs at Canadian Heritage.

There was a very structured process that led to this appointment. A date for the interview was set up through a conference call. There were fairly lengthy periods in which, I take it, there were deliberations over my qualifications among members who were part of the committee that decided to pick me. As you're aware, it went up for cabinet approval, and that's where we are at this point. It took a while to get to this point.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Did you get the sense that the interview was a make or break part of the process, or was that just to get to know you further and the decision had already been made? Was that an evaluation of your qualifications, or was it another chance to get to know somebody who was already on track to be appointed?

[Marc Patrone]

Mr. Chair, the questions were forwarded to me half an hour.... There were rules set forth before the actual interview began. The questions were largely about issues around the CRTC. It wasn't at all about me in terms of what I bring to the table. It was about the CRTC, what they do, about policy. There were issues around this: if this were to happen, how would you deal with it? It was really of the skill-testing variety, I would suggest, Mr. Chair.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Did you ever see a list of the kinds of criteria they were looking for--skills and competences they were looking for--in a member of the CRTC?

[Marc Patrone]

Mr. Chair, I went on the website and I studied past decisions of the CRTC. I did much reading about what the commission has done over the years. I checked the biographies of the other commissioners.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

But you never saw a list of skill-based competences or anything like that that they'd be looking for in someone who was being considered for a position at the CRTC.

[Marc Patrone]

Mr. Chair, I really get the sense that there's no desire on the commission to have a cookie-cutter list of commissioners. In other words, they have excellent commissioners currently serving. I don't believe there's any desire on the part of the commission to have everybody have the same set of educational backgrounds, the same skills. I think the commission is stronger because of the variety that the various commissioners bring to the table.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Patrone, in terms of preparing to appear today before the standing committee, did anyone assist you in preparing for this meeting or brief you ahead of time? If so, who was it who helped you out today?

[Marc Patrone]

Are you talking about the briefings, like about the questions that were going to be asked?

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Yes, that kind of thing, or just what...to prepare you for the meeting today.

[Marc Patrone]

Yes, I've worked with the communications staff at the CRTC concerning what might be asked.