No.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was classical.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was classical.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Okay.
We recognize, of course, that the Broadcasting Act guarantees, and this is a quotation, “journalistic, creative and programming independence” for the CBC, so you're saying basically that you buy into that value.
We have a challenge as a committee of earnest people wanting to contribute positively to this particular question, this particular dynamic. How can we intervene in very concrete, specific terms as a committee? That really isn't a yes-or-no question, but I noted--and I apologize that I didn't make note of who said it--“to comment on and to recommend to” the CBC that this committee do that. What avenue, in your judgment, do we have to be able to do that? What tool do we have in our tool kit to be able to do that?
Senior Advisor, Opera.ca
I think Mr. McGillivray referred to this in terms of this committee having a lot of moral persuasion. Certainly what Opera.ca has endeavoured to say here at this committee is that we recognize and value the role that CBC plays and we have not been adequately part of the discussion in terms of where they're going.
The CBC is something all Canadians--certainly many Canadians I know--love and treasure, and we are worthy and deserving of consultation on the direction it takes in terms of working with us to explore how we can support each other. That's different from entering into recommendations on the programming.
I would urge the committee to recommend to the CBC that they recognize their really important role in terms of supporting the musical culture of this country--artists of all genres, classical artists--and work with us to see how we can all do that better together. They don't work in isolation, just as we don't work in isolation trying to reach out to Canadians. The recommendations of this committee will carry weight, in my estimation, as to how they should be working with us and the political potency of that.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
I apologize, because I should be asking for another question, but I thought that in the original presentations Mr. Andrews and Mr. Lloyd were basically saying that the overall direction Radio 2 is currently going in is positive, while Ms. Carleton was saying no, it's not going in the right direction.
How can we take direction from people? It seems to me that there's a split in opinion even in this panel.
President, Toronto Blues Society
My comment would be that you put some faith in the CBC management, which has been working hard over these issues. I think some very difficult change is taking place at CBC, and while I'm sure parliamentarians are also very invested in these issues, years of toil have been going on at CBC management to try to make the broadcaster more relevant with limited resources.
Initiatives like Radio 3, which is a terrific youth-targeted exercise, have very little reach. You can only hear it on your computer. We've heard the comments about the limitations of computers. Young people are not using radios. There are real problems with how you can keep the broadcaster relevant to Canadians.
I think one of the issues here is that you're hearing a divided music community talking about positions that have emerged in recent times over difficult change. I think we need to let the CBC management take those steps. I personally have a great deal of trust in that.
I'd like to see some things change; I don't think they're perfect, and I'd like to see some more openness and some other things happen with CBC, but I don't run the CBC. I think the CBC management attending these changes are doing it with the best of intentions.
Artistic Director, West End Cultural Centre
Could I address that?
In the preface to your questions, you said that everybody on that side of the table is fully committed to the CBC, and I think it's pretty obvious that everybody on this side of the table is fully committed to the CBC as well.
That's the conundrum. Maybe Derek and I and are seeing this as an opportunity, but there are only 24 hours in a day. I really don't know that there is an answer to your question, other than to let the managers do their thing and then evaluate.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Yet that's the reason I've heard the committee should be involved: I have been hearing that people don't like what the managers are doing. This is the question--how does this committee truly reflect the CBC audience, when even on this panel it's unevenly split four to two? Still, I would guess that there are other ratios within the CBC audience at large.
Indeed, should this committee even be making a recommendation? I'm not being argumentative; I'm trying to figure out where we fit into this thing.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
We have to have a quick answer if someone would like to answer that one.
Go ahead, Ms. Carleton.
Executive Director, Orchestras Canada
Mr. Abbott, I do want to thank you for the sincerity of that inquiry.
I don't actually feel the split among the panellists quite as acutely as perhaps you do. You may be hearing things in the discussion other than what I'm hearing, but I think I hear support for the CBC, absolutely, and a sense that the resources are not actually adequate to get the job done to showcase Canadian musicians working with great integrity in a range of musical genres.
I think we're all very eager for that to happen, and it's actually very challenging personally to me to seem to be agitating for the status quo when in fact I seek a CBC that has the resources to celebrate the very best in Canadian music, and to do so in an attitude of partnership rather than of saying that we're not talking to you guys any more because we're with the hipsters. I think there's a more subtle discussion that could be had.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you for that.
We're going to move the questioning now to Mr. Bell, please.
Liberal
Don Bell Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Thank you for coming.
To Katherine, I appreciate your comment about the challenge of the balance in what you're hearing.
To both Derek and Dominic, I heard your comments about wanting to have something that's more reflective. You talked about equity and being more reflective of Canadian society. I see CBC radio as an opportunity provide a venue for non-mainstream music, which is what both of you represent as well.
To the comment that young people are not using radios, I notice increasingly when I walk through the stores that MP3s now carry radio tuners. I think iPod is next to come out with one for both FM and AM.
I've heard concerns, and I'll be presenting petitions that come to my office calling on the government to ensure a continued mandate and funding for CBC radio to allow it to continue to make its contribution to the cultural life of Canada.
There are examples in which the federal government has provided money, but provided it with direction. I'm thinking of health funding for waiting times. There have been other areas that we've gone into where we've left, generally speaking, federal money without any strings, but there are areas where, because of the responses we hear, we feel extra is needed.
The message I'm hearing from the people I talk to, and what I've heard from your comments today, is that in fact resources are dwindling. You're saying CBC radio is facing tough choices with diminishing resources, and that seems to be the problem--the diminishing resources. I appreciate Dominic's comment that there are 24 hours in a day, but I think it's increasingly important for Canada and the cultural values in Canada to be able to provide these avenues for young artists and emerging artists in the full range.
I recently attended the CBC Radio Orchestra performance at the Chan Centre in which they played pop music with a great interpretation that challenged the audience. Also, I recently attended a Persian piano concert by artist Shardad Rohani, who is a very accomplished pianist. There's interest in the community for it.
Derek made the comment on the caveat, as I saw it, on reduced or limited funding. I think that's the real issue. We need to be encouraging CBC to continue its mandate. The importance of classical music is there, and they should try to find ways of adding rather than subtracting the process of enriching that.
I notice other kinds of music get exposure on television and on commercial radio, but jazz or classical music doesn't seem to get the same exposure. I think that's what I see as the role of the CBC, and I'd appreciate any comments.
I might add that I'm a great supporter of the CBC Radio Orchestra. I think it's a 70-year tradition that I'd hate to see us lose.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Would someone like to make a comment?
Go ahead, Ms. Peters.
As an Individual
My concern is in terms of funding and representing artists in Canada--the musicians who need to have their music heard more--and I'm wondering about some of the changes. I don't know, but if it's a matter of dollars, I wonder if the CBC is doing less recording of live music even though they have a program that's dedicated to recording live music. My sense is that fewer artists are being recorded in concert or in studio.
If jazz is the example, I would say there are fewer jazz concerts being recorded in this country, and we're not hearing some of the ones we used to hear on Jazz Beat any more. That's just my perception. If it's a question of funding, the committee could definitely recommend that dollars to the CBC be increased and stabilized. It would allow more of Canada's excellent artists of whatever genre to be recorded. Then it doesn't become an “us and them” thing, with everybody scrambling to try to get the attention of these producers to record me instead of you.
Can anyone else speak to whether that perception is right or wrong?
Artistic Director, West End Cultural Centre
As I said in my presentation, they've been at my venue 15 times in the last 18 months, which is unprecedented, I think. It's been for a wide range of different shows, some of which they have instigated, and some of which I've programmed and they've picked up on. I know they also have a backlog of things that need to be mixed and made ready for air. So again it comes down to a resource. There are only so many trucks, and there are only so many guys who know how to mix stuff. So more resources could help that.
As you said, supporting emerging artists in a full range of genre is also important. That's really why I'm here today. I hear words like “dumbing down” and I just don't agree with that. I don't know if that's because I'm a hipster, or because I just work in a different world. But saying things like that puts a value judgment on a form of music that is not necessarily bad; it's just different.
President, Toronto Blues Society
I'll make a general comment to try to address what you're bringing up. I've just come back from the Netherlands and a world music conference that was staged in Rotterdam. Many European, U.S., and Canadian organizers were gathered, at the expense of a music institute in the Netherlands. I think Canadians sit somewhere between the European and the American models in terms of what we support in culture. At the heart of this discussion around CBC is that we want a public broadcaster that is engaged with our community.
The music community that has evolved and matured over the last 50 or 70 years continues to need resources, and an Heritage Canada is providing those resources. Arts Presentation Canada, for example, is engaged in supporting the festival community, and is quite vigorously helping to bring culture to Canadians. I think the CBC is reflecting that.
In the last 20 years, Dominic and I have been witness to an evolution of popular music that did not really take place before that. The federal government has assisted in music education, conferences, and all kinds of steps that have been taken in recent years. Organizations like FACTOR, and other conferences, are really speaking to the maturity of a Canadian music identity that now needs the support of the broadcaster. There's been a history of it being mostly music at Radio 2, and the popular music community needs to be there too. That's what the CBC management has to work out.
Conservative
Executive Director, Orchestras Canada
I just want to highlight again the fact that the CBC and American Federation of Muscians agreement is going from $10.4 million down to $5 million over three years. Some of that has to do with the fact that the CBC evidently does not have the funding to support the production teams necessary to do the recording, mixing, and preparation for broadcast. So to a certain extent we could be talking about a problem that money would fix.
Conservative