Canadian Heritage Committee on June 3rd, 2008

[Peter McGillivray]

It's my understanding that they would do a concert featuring one of the young performers from winners of all the different prizes--prizes that were given, I might add, by the Canada Council and not coming out of the CBC budget. I won a substantial prize when I won this young performers competition, and I actually won it on the same day the Giller Prize came out. I remember distinctly that my prize was actually double that of the Giller Prize. It was a very substantial prize. It basically cancelled my university debt in one night.

So we've lost that.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Does the same opportunity exist with other orchestras for young performers that would provide that kind of showcasing or that kind of opportunity for performance?

You mentioned you had other concerts.

[Peter McGillivray]

I think it does with choirs due to budget.... It's very hard. Orchestras have to do their programming years in advance, and book their artists. So they fit young artists in where they can to give them that exposure. But if you're talking about something like the Toronto Symphony Orchestra or the Orchestre symphonique de Montréal, they have to have the big names to put people in the seats. So it's a really big gamble for them or for an opera company to hire young artists fresh off a competition.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Ms. Carleton, did you have something to add about that?

[Katherine Carleton]

I simply wanted to say that I think the other 44 professional orchestras in the country do in fact regularly feature young performers. The magic of the CBC relationship, particularly as it pertains to the young performers competition and to the radio orchestra, is that the broadcast is built in, so it's not just the performance opportunity; there's also the opportunity for a stepping stone in a career, because people can hear you, either throughout the region or across the country, and it's where it goes from there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ms. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

As we've gone on back and forth between the committee and the witnesses, some things have surfaced. The CBC met with us at the beginning of this exercise and we asked them certain questions. One of these had to do with the CBC Radio Orchestra. The CBC told us that they felt that while the radio orchestra would go, this would allow them the opportunity to use regional orchestras across the country to meet their regional mandate. We've heard differently from witnesses. Some said that the CBC Radio Orchestra was important in itself, and they gave us very good reasons.

The other point has to do with having another station besides Radio 2 and having a wider terrestrial reach. CBC told us that they couldn't do that because they didn't have the bandwidth for FM. It was a real problem getting that new bandwidth in.

I need to know if any of you are technical enough to talk about ways, other than conversion into digital, of reaching different bandwidths for people around the country. Do you have an answer to that?

[Derek Andrews]

Certainly this is not a possibility in the Toronto market. There's a skirmish every time space on the band comes up. We have French and English services offered in four opportunities to have CBC delivered.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

So what's the solution?

[Derek Andrews]

Take CHUM FM, Q107, CHFI, or one of the commercial stations off the air. We introduced an aboriginal radio service in Toronto in the last couple of years. That market is saturated. If the CBC is telling you that there's no bandwidth, they're reporting the facts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ms. Carleton.

[Katherine Carleton]

One thing I'm finding interesting in some of the bigger U.S. markets is the venture into HD radio. Unfortunately, because there are inconsistent international standards for HD radio, that's not an option open to us in Canada. It sure would be nice if such a thing were an option.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you.

I'm glad Ms. Fry raised the issue of bandwidths, because I'd like to use that as a launching point for my question.

I have a bias, and it's a classical bias, because I've been raised on classical music. I also love classic rock, country, jazz, southern gospel, but I'm not sure that we do any service to Canadians by cannibalizing one genre of music in order to meet the demands of another. It's been sort of a love-in here, because we all seem to be on the same side, but I'm going to pour some cold water on it.

Ms. Fry raised the issue of bandwidth. CBC was before us and specifically said bandwidth is so limited that our chances of getting another service in, a Radio 4, is just not an option right now.

Second, even if CBC did receive another $100 million or $200 million a year for funding, it doesn't necessarily mean that the management will consider classical music programming a priority. As far back as 2003, they'd already cut the national competitions for young composers and performers. Now we see CBC Radio Orchestra being cut, classical music being scaled back on Radio 2. What I'm hearing from virtually everybody who has commented on Radio 2's classical offerings is that it provides the lifeline to the composers and to the performers in Canada. In many cases it's their only exposure to the public.

But it's a matter of priorities. As much as we can leave here feeling all happy that we're all on the same page, that doesn't necessarily mean it will translate into prioritization that will meet your needs. If we simply have 24 hours on current Radio 2, then it is an “us and them” issue. We'll have Dominic and Derek on one side saying they want more of that for us because our composers and performers need exposure. And they're absolutely right. But it means that the other side loses out.

This is the conundrum we face. As a committee, we're going to do our best to put forward recommendations, to do whatever we can to exert some influence on CBC. You're going to have to do that as well. We cannot direct CBC—we cannot tell them what they should do with their programming. You haven't said that's what we should do, but it's a tough position we find ourselves in.

I'm not sure I need a response. It's just a comment. That's the reality of it. There is an issue of priorities here, and we need to communicate that to CBC.

[Katherine Carleton]

It's not really a response to what wasn't really a question, but I think we really do come back to the point that was raised by Mr. Malo earlier, and that has to do with how artists earn a living in Canada. There have been various facilitating agencies over time that have made it possible for artists to grow, mature, develop, become beloved, represent our country nationally and internationally. The CBC has played that role or it has been one of the parts of the infrastructure that's made that possible.

If that's changing, then by all means let us explore together what other means are available to ensure that artists' voices continue to be heard by Canadians who seek that uniquely Canadian thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

Mr. McGillivray, if you had something, keep it quick.

[Peter McGillivray]

In my previous incarnation--before I got into opera--I was a political science student at the University of Toronto who was specializing in cultural issues from time to time, writing pithy essays and what not, but I don't know if this will be pithy enough.

It seems to me that the CRTC does bear some responsibility, and that this committee not only has influence over what the CBC decides to do, but also how the CRTC decides to dole out its very precious licences. And it seems to me that if the government were to make public broadcasting of this sort and of this type--because we're all agreeing that it's very important to the national fabric of this country and the provinces--if they were to make that a priority, it seems to me that could be done, and the bandwidth could be found.

We just got the news last week that the licence for a Radio One station in Vancouver--on the FM dial--was finally approved. This is Radio One; of all channels, it's the one with the highest ratings and market share, and yet somehow the system was letting that down. So it seems to me that's an avenue that needs to be explored.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you very much for your testimony here today and your candid answers. I really do appreciate that.

I'd just like you to know that my riding of Perth--Wellington has Stratford, Ontario, in it, so there are a lot of artists. There was one name mentioned here today, Loreena McKennitt, who--when she is in this country--is one of my constituents. So I do understand very well where you're coming from and thank you very much again for attending today.

And yes, I have been to the north. We went to Yellowknife, and I do understand how important the CBC is to the people in the north, because if it wasn't for that, there would not be a lot of communication there.

Thank you again.

[Debbie Peters]

I'll be on CBC on Thursday and I'll let them know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.