Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2010

[Claire Samson]

With the integration, what we've seen over the years is effectively an erosion of the capacity of producers to negotiate fair deals, which would of course give the broadcasters some rights to exploit the programming as business but also allow the producers to either sell the program abroad or give it a second life.

Now when I look at contracts that producers have to sign or are brought to sign with some broadcasters—and I'm not saying it's just Quebecor; Radio-Canada has its own little bad habits in that manner as well. I've said it to the CRTC before; the only thing I haven't seen in those contracts so far is an obligation for an organ donation. Everything else I have seen. Lately I've seen a contract in which the producer asked the broadcaster for an appointment to sell him a series or whatever. The broadcaster sent him a letter that said, “Before I meet with you, sign this.” That letter said he was agreeing to pitch his program and his new idea and his new concept; if the broadcaster decided not to purchase the program, the producer could not present it to any other broadcaster for 18 months.

We see things like that, but what can you do? There are three or four decision-makers who are producers, so you don't want to antagonize one of your four potential clients. Of course, the producer in that case decided not to go and make his pitch, decided it was too abusive. There was no way he was going to do that. But then that's not so good for business relations when you only have four potential clients.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Certainly I've heard that example already, and it was in another context, so it seems to me that there may be some abusive practices.

I'm interested in this issue because there are elements that are within the role of the industry. Producers probably always fight with the writers, who always fight with the broadcasters. That's common in the business. But what we want to ensure from the investments that we make is that we have a competition and creativity, that we have a diversity of voice. Mr. von Finckenstein says, “Well, there are many voices out there”. Certainly there are blogs; there's Facebook. My kids watch YouTube all the time, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the investment that the Canadian public makes. It's a substantive investment: the Canada Media Fund, the video tax credit, section 19.1 of the tax act, the massive investment we make in Telefilm and the National Film Board. We are players at the table. And now, as we see a vertically integrated company that is now being able to offer phone service with content, we want to make sure that with what we've paid for with the taxpayers' money, through independent production, through in-house production, or however it is, we have the diversity of voice and we have complete access. I'm concerned, given the experience of the industry, whether or not that access is going to remain and our public trust is going to be kept up to the level it needs to be.

I'd like to ask you, Madame Samson, if you think we need to put some clear rules down.

[Claire Samson]

I think we should. I think many of those new technologies are still exploratory. We have to be there, explore. I think we just have to make sure that the regulations and the legislation allow for every stakeholder to remain a stakeholder and a player in the industry.

It's important that independent broadcasters succeed. I think it's also important that we see strong Canadian production companies as well, so that the diversity remains and the quality is there.

In Quebec, for example, the vast majority of successful programming is produced by independent producers, no doubt about that. All the new ideas...the success of television in Quebec, as you know, is unprecedented, and independent producers have a great deal to do with that. We work very closely with the unions and all of the creators, and they're entitled, as well as we are, as the broadcasters are, to have a piece of that challenge and that success. And those two technologies--some of them may have more success in the future than others. I think everybody deserves a fair deal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Angus.

Thank you very much, Madame Samson.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And thank you very much, witnesses, for coming in.

Personally, I actually look at vertical integration as an incredible opportunity. I agree with the comments made by Mr. Maavara that scale is needed, mass is needed, if we're going to project Canadian programming and create opportunities, and also compete on what is very much a global market, where people have choices and can make choices as to what their entertainment selection is going to be, and that choice is broader all the time.

Incidentally, Mr. Maavara, you'll be happy to learn that when I do have the opportunity to watch Durham County—and I'm several episodes behind, so I don't want you to tell me what's happening right now—I watch it on demand because my schedule doesn't allow me otherwise.

I think one of the things I really believe firmly is that the idea of needing to create a stage—which is I think what the Canadian government invests an awful lot of money into—versus the need to invest in content, which is something we invest less money into, has actually changed. I think if we go back and look at how important it was that Canadian signals were actually out there and were able to compete and reach Canadian households and so forth, at one time that was a role for the government, because nobody else was going to do it.

You've properly indicated that there is a multitude of channels, more all the time. In fact, anyone can be a broadcaster. I can broadcast this afternoon on YouTube if I choose. So there are all kinds of choices.

I'm just asking an opinion—this is not a government policy, obviously—but do you think it's time that the Canadian government looks at it and says maybe it's time we get out of the broadcasting business and get into investing more money into content? We invest over a billion government dollars, as you know, into a stage, when in fact the private sector would not only make use of that stage...they have so many already, and reinvest all of those dollars into Canadian content. I see major blockbuster films being made in this country. I see creators with so much talent. I see a world that is begging for good-quality content. You've adequately pointed out that there are major companies out there that will gobble this stuff up. Is that where we should be looking? Is that kind of the next century? Is that where Canada should be looking for opportunity?

[Gary Maavara]

One of the Corus big six proposals is that indeed there is a continuing need for.... We're sympathetic with independent producers. For example, to Mr. Angus' question, we were one of the largest buyers of movies or scripted drama. We don't make any of that ourselves. That's all from independent producers, including this film. One of our largest suppliers of long-form films and television is a Montreal-based company, Incendo, who supplies us with a lot of programming. So we're going to continue to need processes like the CMF, Telefilm, etc., investment in content. It will continue to be important.

I should also say, going to Mr. Angus' question about the safeguards, that we already have the safeguards in the Telefilm and CMF rules. They will only pick a selection of people.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I apologize. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The $1.1 billion, plus a whole bunch of other stuff that we're investing into the public broadcaster: should we look at reorganizing that in some fashion so we could put more money into content? Would companies like Corus match those dollars? Would we produce bigger, better shows that would have a larger opportunity for international global success, which could then become something that feeds itself?

[Gary Maavara]

I guess I should declare a conflict. We operate three CBC affiliate stations in Peterborough, Kingston, and Oshawa, and we're really proud of the contribution we make to the local community with those things. We are currently working with the CBC on renewing that affiliation.

Our view is that in the context of the Corus big six, we do need to look at it all. We're not pointing a finger at anybody else. The first people we look at are ourselves. In fact, our board just spent the last four days looking at our future, and it's a tough, tough future. Anybody who thinks the Canadian media industry is going to be an easy ride from here on in...it is not. We feel we're ready. All we ask from the government is that there be informed analysis on basically soup to nuts--everything.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I'm proud to have two Corus radio stations in my riding, the city of Barrie: FM 93 and B101. I do think they play an important role in sharing local content.

The one thing I'm curious about, given the changing media platforms, is how you foresee protecting the ability to have a local radio station that reports on local charity events or the local community relations. People are now using satellite radio; they're now going to put their iPods in their car. It's not as typical, especially amongst the younger generation, to turn that local radio station on.

How do we protect those stations?

[Gary Maavara]

That's a really important question.

I'm proud to say that Corus was the first radio company on iTunes; we stream all of our stations through iTunes. If you have an iPad, or any of those other devices, you can hear your stations anywhere.

Radio is a really interesting one for us. We believe that the secret to success of radio, in a context of all the satellite services—streaming, and all the rest of it—is that we have to stay immensely relevant to somebody within five miles of where they live. If we're not doing that in Peterborough or Barrie or Winnipeg or Montreal, then we're irrelevant, because you can get music anywhere.

Our big investments are in news talk. What we're hoping to do is to move all of our AM stations onto the FM band across Canada, in order to ensure we continue to have the opportunity for people to listen to us. We're investing in radio, but local is absolutely crucial.

The big radio stations in the United States thought they could become jukeboxes. They let their DJs go, or they did it all from New York or Los Angeles. And what happened? Nobody listened to them. Even if it's just to say, “Hey, it's a sunny day and here's a song you heard 10 years ago”, that's important.

We're committed to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Thank you very much to our witnesses. I want to thank everybody for their participation today.

One final point of information before committee members adjourn for the day. The chair has received notice, pursuant to Standing Order 110(2), that Maureen Dougan of Ottawa, Ontario, has been appointed acting director of the Canadian Museum of Nature. If the committee wishes to examine this appointment, it has until February 11, 2011, to do so. If you wish to do so, please let the chair know and we will discuss that.

Thank you very much.

Without further adieu, this meeting is adjourned.