Evidence of meeting #31 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Valerie Creighton  President and Chief Executive officer, Canada Media Fund
Stéphane Cardin  Vice-President, Strategic Policy Planning and Stakeholder Relations, Canadian Television Fund
Norm Bolen  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Media Production Association
Reynolds Mastin  Counsel, Canadian Media Production Association
Claire Samson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec
Gary Maavara  Executive Vice-President and General Counsel, Corporate, Corus Entertainment Inc.
Sylvie Courtemanche  Vice-President, Governement Relations, Corus Entertainment Inc.
Suzanne D'Amours  Consultant, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

4:55 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Counsel, Corporate, Corus Entertainment Inc.

Gary Maavara

This is playing the Canadian film, One Week. It is an excellent film. We're quite proud of it. Corus helped to finance this film.

I bought it from iTunes last night in a hotel just down the street, and I was able to download it to this device in just a few minutes. The new Apple TV device referred to in today's Globe and Mail story is available at the mall down the street and can make the Internet experience happen easily on anyone's home TV. I don't necessarily want to endorse the Apple TV, but I encourage you to have a look at it. You just plug it in and—wow!— it's all there on your set.

Companies such as Apple and Google are rapidly working to invade the traditional regulated TV markets. None of these services are required to share their space with Canadian players or to carry Canadian content that meets Canadian standards.

Corus big six number two: increase the probability of success of the Canadian media industry by encouraging the creation of larger and stronger enterprises.

Corus is a significant player in the Canadian market, but on a global scale we are very small. The chart that we have included illustrates market capitalization of some companies. The interesting thing is that on the left side, the new media players such as Google, which owns YouTube, which I'm sure you've all used, and Apple, which I've already referred to, dwarf even a traditional media Goliath such Disney. Google and Apple are seven times larger than even BCE, which is our largest media company in Canada. Netflix, which made a lot of noise a few weeks ago when it announced its incursion into Canada, has a market cap of $9 billion, which is the same as Corus, Astral, and Quebecor combined.

This financial power—and you've heard it from the producers—gives them the resources to innovate, to buy content, and to entice away our talent. For example, Google Inc. spent roughly U.S. $1.5 billion on research and development in 2007, and that number has increased over the last couple of years. This amount is greater than the revenue last year of the entire Canadian radio industry. We must all recognize that the scale problem is worse in the digital realm than it was in traditional broadcasting. This makes it very challenging to fully participate in a new media world.

To participate in digital markets, Corus must also address the critical issue of the management of digital rights. We need to make huge investments in technology to attract and protect our rights and in training our employees to use it. In this regard, we invite the committee to visit Corus Quay in Toronto, where you will see a world-leading technology facility, which I can report cost us about nine figures to build.

Indeed, our media environment is changing. The members of the committee know that. However, you must also understand that your ability to regulate and protect the domestic market is limited. We need to come up with a new mix of incentives, supports, and protections to ensure a continued vibrant Canadian presence. We need scale to maintain the R and D and to make the content that will help us to compete even here at home. To achieve this scale, we will need to redefine our policy bias against vertical integration. We can use other policy tools to ensure diversity and access for many voices.

What are these tools? At this point, we'll simply say that we recommended to the digital economy process that a panel of experts be formed to examine these and other issues.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, those are our submissions, and we look forward to your questions.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you very much.

We only have 30 minutes for questions and comments from members. We'll begin with Madame Crombie.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

I want to thank all our presenters for coming here today.

Mr. Maavara, I want to give a little shout to my good friend, Lisa Lyons, your present CEO of Kids Can Press, who I think does a terrific job.

Ms. Samson, your description of ownership in the industry almost sounds like an oligopoly, with four large groups controlling. I wanted to get to the crux of the issue.

Is the issue one of contraction in the market, or is the real issue vertical integration? What's your sense?

4:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

Claire Samson

I'm not sure I get your question.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

There are only four companies, and they keep buying up each other, right? There's concentration in the industry, versus the vertical integration.

5 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

Claire Samson

I think the vertical and horizontal integration is certainly—

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

The greater issue?

So how do we mitigate the impact of further vertical integration? What's the solution? You talked a little about greater regulation. Do you see the CRTC intervening further?

5 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

Claire Samson

I think regulation is an important key, certainly a key to making sure that different stakeholders in the industry can survive, or certainly one of them.

The second avenue, I think, and as I said, is that we feel it would be important not only that the CRTC regulate the Internet and new platforms, but also that these new platforms start contributing to the funding of Canadian content.

Right now, everybody agrees that content is king, that content is the most important thing for the technology. Some of those service providers now have their pipelines full of product that they did not contribute to financing at all.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

That was actually my next question to you. How can we better fund the content, especially to the small and independent producers? Is it through the CMF? How can we better fund the content?

5 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

Claire Samson

If those service providers were to contribute to CMF for the production of high-quality Canadian content for those services they provide, it would certainly be a good start.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Are you concerned in Quebec? It's more of a protected market. The four companies you described are largely in English Canada. Are you concerned about increased concentration in Quebec and the impact it will have on the market?

5 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

Claire Samson

Quebecor is in Quebec, mostly, so there are certainly concerns about concentration in Quebec. You have full vertical integration there.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Maybe I'll ask Mr. Maavara as well.

Can you allay our concerns over the increased concentration in the industry and the significant impact it is having and will continue to have?

5 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Counsel, Corporate, Corus Entertainment Inc.

Gary Maavara

That's a great question, but I think whenever you're doing an economic analysis and then building it into a policy analysis, you also have to question the assumptions. You have to question them quite carefully.

I started in this business in 1973, and I think some of the people in the room will remember that at that time the market for programming was basically the CBC and, in the English language, CTV, and in Quebec and French markets, SRC and TVA, essentially. There were four markets, and in fact they didn't buy very much.

The market evolved to a point at which there were more stations, but if you look at it today, we actually have more buyers of programming. There was a comment made earlier about the reduction of the number of buyers. The number of channels is not going to be reduced. The need for content in the system increases almost every day.

For example, we're launching the Oprah Winfrey Network in the spring, which we're quite excited about. It's going to have a lot of new Canadian content in it, and the good news is that some of that content is going to go to world markets. Why? It's because Oprah has seen it, and she really likes some of the ideas we have.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

I'm going to ask you one more question, because I'm going to run out of time.

5 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Counsel, Corporate, Corus Entertainment Inc.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

With respect to the increased concentration in the industry, do you really need to be bigger to be better, to be more globally competitive?

The last time we saw a sector come before us at committee, many years ago—I think my colleague here was present—we saw the banking industry come before us, also asking for increased mergers to make them globally competitive. Those mergers weren't approved at that time.

Why is it you feel you need greater concentration in the industry, further mergers, to be more globally competitive?

5 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Counsel, Corporate, Corus Entertainment Inc.

Gary Maavara

The challenge we have in every part of the media industry is the need for capital.

For example, there was a proceeding in Mr. Angus' riding with respect to the provision of broadband. Certainly it's a policy goal for this country that the only way we're going to stay competitive is to have broadband everywhere. Someone's going to have to pay for it. Whether it's a mix of public policy money or private money, it's going to take a lot of money.

These are very much the same questions that the founders of this country had with building the railway. We're going to have to invest in technology.

Take Corus Quay, for example. There isn't a producer who's a member of Norm Bolen's group—and we are, by the way, one of the largest producers and we're not a member of his group—who could have financed just the content management system that we're using at Corus Quay. There wouldn't have been a bank in the country that would have said yes to it.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you.

Mr. Wilfert, you may intervene briefly.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

I just want to pick up on a comment or two, Mr. Chairman.

You said, sir, “no longer shelter the Canadian market”. I'm trying to get my head around that in terms of the issue of Canadian content and Canadian voices. You're suggesting, then, that the present framework is not meeting the demands of what's out there in the marketplace. Can you try to reconcile that for me?

5:05 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Counsel, Corporate, Corus Entertainment Inc.

Gary Maavara

What we mean by this is that we can't simply assume that we can build a wall around the Canadian market and assume that some of the rules we had in the past—for example, the provision of linear space on a linear channel—would do the trick of enticing viewers to the programming. The reality is that you're all going to go home tonight, and if you turn on the television set, you will make a personal decision as to what you're going to watch.

What we're trying to do, from a business perspective, is say.... We have been big supporters of the BDU sector in their VOD environment. We're saying, if Canadians want to watch a program right now, then we're going to give them the programming right now and we're going to try to put it through the BDU pipe. Why? It's because right now that's where the business is. We don't want our content on some of these new over-the-top platforms. As a producer in the short term, terrific, we might make a little bit of money.

By the way, there isn't any money in the digital environment right now. If producers want to play in the digital environment, step up, become our partners, and pay for it.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you very much.

Madame Lavallée.

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you.

Mrs. Samson, you said that the CRTC has refused to regulate the Internet, if I'm not mistaken. Is that indeed what you said? Then, you mentioned the issues of mobile phones and BDUs.

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Association des producteurs de films et de télévision du Québec

Claire Samson

Until today, the CRTC has not imposed any regulation to the providers Internet services all mobile phones as far as what investments they should make in Canadian content.

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Is it not difficult for the CRTC to do so at this time? I do not want to defend them but let us say that I want to play devil's advocate. In the present context, since there are two different pieces of legislation, the Telecommunications Act regulating BDUs, mobile phones and the Internet, and the Broadcasting Act, do you not think that the CRTC has a good reason not to do so?