To achieve your target.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
4:40 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
It's the budgetary appropriations as outlined in the report on plans and priorities and the estimates, which go through estimates (A) and today's estimates (B). All of those appropriations through Parliament--those are our targets.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
What if I asked for a number? Could I get a number?
4:40 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Absolutely, sir.
4:40 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Parliament already has estimates (A).
Do you have estimates (A) with you, Tom? Would you mind just giving that number?
And the estimates (B) number that is before you, you have in the documents in front of you.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
While you're looking that up, we'll go to Mr. Angus. Then you can respond when you have the answer to Mr. Simms' questions.
Mr. Angus.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
I just wanted to clarify a few things. One of the questions from my colleague referred to the $60 million that has been allotted for CBC every year. So since 2001, there has been a $60 million request, and it's gone to cover off....
Now, last year we had an extraordinary situation with the drop in revenues for all the broadcasters. There was a financial crisis. CBC was selling off assets and buildings to make up for the shortfall. Then they were also put under the parliamentary review of the department to find the cost savings. Our committee had recommended that those cost savings be put back into the public broadcaster.
I'm seeing here that the $13.8 million is “savings identified as part of cost containment measures to reduce the rate of growth in operating expenditures” announced in budget 2012.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Yes, sorry, it's budget 2010.
The way I'm reading it is that they underwent a cost-saving measure, which they might have had to give back but were allowed to keep, but then the appropriation is still then only $46.2 million.
Is it correct to say that they actually are only receiving $46.2 million this year instead of the $60 million they would normally receive? This isn't new money; this is—
4:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage
I think I may be able to provide some clarification, but it will be for the CBC to confirm.
In dealing with a transferring of funds like this, we had two actions occurring. One was the $60 million going in; the other one was the requirement for the $13 million or so—which the CBC would have received, like all the other federal entities, related to salary increases—to come out. It became an accounting net of $46 million. The way the CBC chooses to fund the $13 million clawback of salary is not necessarily to take it from the $60 million that they are receiving in the current year for additional programing. How the CBC chooses to handle the clawback is a question I'm afraid you'll have to ask them; it's an internal operation to the CBC.
What I think we're being confused with here is that you have two accounting entries, and we're focusing on the net.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Right. I was interested in the clawback and whether that money is remaining with CBC. Normally there's a $60 million envelope that's added. We have an extraordinary situation whereby we have a year of clawback and we're getting $46 million.
4:40 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
I think I understand the drift of the question, Mr. Chair, on this one.
The clawback of $13 million is against the overall appropriation of $1 billion. It's about their overall salary budget and the fact that they will, like all other crowns and all other government departments, not get additional moneys. Their decisions with respect to what traditionally they've been doing with the $60 million are entirely up to them.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay.
I wanted to follow up on a question my colleague from the Bloc asked about the “do not call” registry, because I had flagged it as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our honourable chair would be able to confirm that his previous committee, the industry committee, dealt with the “do not call” registry, because it was under Industry.
Is there an appropriation coming from Heritage and Industry, or is Heritage paying the shot? I'm worried that our poor Peter, our illustrious heritage minister, is being robbed to pay for Paul, their industry minister, and I want to make sure our money isn't covering off some other department.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage
No, I think it's a simple answer, that the CRTC is part of the Heritage portfolio, and from a Treasury Board perspective it belongs to our minister. But it's not coming from our budget.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay, thank you very much.
I was interested in the Michaëlle Jean Foundation, because $3 million is a good chunk of change to start a program, especially to help underprivileged youth. Have the funding requirements for the program been put in place? Have the parameters for accessing those funds been set? Or is this money that's just been put aside and we're going to figure out the details later? Is this program operational now, and can people apply?
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage
It's not operational yet. We are working with the foundation now to work through the accountability, governance, and administrative components of the program. It will have to meet all the accountability requirements that Treasury Board has around the transfer of funds under contribution agreements—or grants, in this particular case.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay, so it hasn't met those requirements yet. I'm just interested in how a program like this gets off the ground, because there are so many programs out there and there's such a pressure for limited funds. Have the guidelines been laid out? Are you going to be able to hit the ground running, so that when the new budget is announced people will be able to apply for this fund and everything will be in place, or are we still looking at it?
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage
I think the other thing is that we're transferring the funding as a one-time grant into the foundation. It will be the foundation's operations and their practices that will decide how they will handle the applications coming in for it.
We have obviously a deep interest in ensuring, with the $3 million grant going into the foundation, that the government's accountability, reporting, and performance requirements around that funding are met. We're in discussion with the foundation now, and we're looking forward to moving forward as quickly as we can to get this particular aspect of the funding off the ground.
4:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
I'd just add, sir, that these types of arrangements are actually fairly typical of the end of most terms of Governors General, so we have some history and background on these kinds of arrangements.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Thank you very much, Mr. Angus.
Thank you, Mr. Wallace.
Mr. Simms.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Goodness knows I hate to belabour this, but I have to go back, because I just have to get some clarification. On one hand, it seems as if this is a normal measure for the CBC, out of the $60 million, but it doesn't seem to be.
Here's what I'm saying. There is a measure of restraint that came out of the 2010 budget, which has to be accounted for; I get that. The salaries that you say you have to claw back from are specifically targeted towards the CBC. You control that; there is a measure of control there. But the CBC has negotiated salaries, so year over year there are increases.
So they had to make a decision to cut back on programing. Really, they didn't get $60 million; they got that less $13 million.
4:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
If you don't mind, I'm going to try to answer that first. I apologize if I don't go all the way, but Mr. Blais will backfill on this one.
The $13 million is across government, similar treatment of the fact that the government is not going to be providing for salary increases that have already been negotiated across the board, including the CBC. So every single government department will have to find that money from reallocating internally.
In the case of a $1.1 billion operation, the CBC, they'll have to find $13 million internally to be able to do so. It will makes its own decisions about how it reallocates internally to be able to meet that particular financial pressure. It can do so through a series of things, particularly since it earns revenue, it gets appropriations, it has different funding programs that apply to it. It makes its own decisions about how it does so.
For example, in the case of Canadian Heritage, we went to our operational budget, our program budget, to look for savings in that respect. CBC will make its own decisions in that regard.