Canadian Heritage Committee on Jan. 31st, 2011

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

My last question is this. From a Canadian domestic perspective, were we producers of some of these counterfeit products going abroad, or are we basically an importer of these? Were we the problem, or were we the destination for most of these issues?

[Robert Ready]

It's essentially an international...it's a problem that arises in other countries, and we tend to be recipients of a great deal of counterfeit product. Whether it's 100% would be impossible to say, but the vast majority of it comes from elsewhere into Canada.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Were the countries that are primarily responsible—I'm sure there are some—part of these negotiations? Are they part of the solution, or are they still outliers or the causes of the problem?

[Robert Ready]

As I indicated in an earlier answer, the countries that came together in the ACTA process were typically those that were interested in enhanced intellectual property enforcement. There are probably some countries we would want to see inside the agreement at some stage that are probably more the source of this kind of product. The agreement is, of course, open to their accession in the future, if they are so inclined and if their domestic regime would permit them to meet the obligations of the agreement.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Armstrong.

Now we have Madam Crombie.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ready and Madam St-Hilaire.

I was interested in your comment that counterfeit goods continue to grow steadily. How large is the counterfeit industry, both globally and in Canada? Can you put a dollar value on it?

[Robert Ready]

I can put a dollar value on the global estimate that the OECD calculated: $250 billion a year in 2007.

I'm not aware of a similar analysis in a Canadian context, but it's the--

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Somebody must have done a valuation, though.

[Robert Ready]

It's the global flow that is the problem, frankly.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Right. I'm just wondering what the impact is in Canada. Has nobody attempted to put a valuation on the impact in Canada?

[Robert Ready]

I apologize. I'm not in a position to say with any clarity or certainty that there's a number in Canada.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

How is counterfeiting enforced today prior to ACTA? Has any coordinated effort been made on the enforcement front?

[Edith St-Hilaire]

Yes, we already enforce IP rights. We have provisions in all our IP legislation, and there are damages, there are injunctive recourses. We already have international obligations. ACTA adds to what we have already at the international level. It builds upon what we have in the WTO, the TRIPS agreement, the trade-related aspects of intellectual property. Also, as I mentioned earlier, it adds some provisions on cooperation for countries to try to exchange information, to try to exchange best practices, because it's not just what we have in the legislation, but it's how people can work together that may help to prevent further--

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Which nations were the chief offenders? Do we have any information on that?

[Robert Ready]

I believe the OECD study makes some attempts to identify the source of counterfeit production. I would have to check with that study to refresh my memory.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'd be interested in knowing.

Which sectors are impacted in Canada primarily? Is it goods, services, or products that are affected, and I assume being imported rather than domestically...?

[Robert Ready]

Well, it's really across the spectrum of production in Canada. It can relate to pharmaceutical products, medical devices; it can relate to machinery. It can, of course, relate to fashion. It can relate to entertainment.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

And will all these sectors be covered under the ACTA agreement?

[Robert Ready]

Yes. It's not a sectoral agreement. It would apply across the board.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

So was ACTA an effort to ensure that enforcement is standardized globally?

[Robert Ready]

It's less an effort to ensure that enforcement is standardized. It's an effort to ensure that enforcement is improved and that there are elements of international cooperation with respect to enforcement. It provides a framework for enforcement, but it doesn't require standardized approaches in each country to deal with the same issue.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

How many countries will be signatories?

[Robert Ready]

Well, actually, at this stage there's a process in every country to determine whether people are going to sign on. But the list of countries includes.... I'll let Edith describe it, because she was at the table with all of them.

[Edith St-Hilaire]

Would you like the list of the countries? I think it's 11 or 12, plus the 27 members of the EU.