Evidence of meeting #38 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was copyright.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Amanda Cliff  Director General, Broadcasting and Digital Communications Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage
Louis Beauséjour  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada , Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Pamela Miller  Director General, Telecommunications Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Barbara Motzney  Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage
Colette Downie  Director General, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

I want to draw your attention to what I feel is an inconsistency. You can be the judge of whether it is a major or a minor one.

On page 8, you talk about ways of ensuring that creators of content are compensated for their work. Ms. Cliff, at the beginning you said that Canadian businessmen—I assume you were talking about creators—have all they need right now.

However, upon reading Bill C-32 on copyright, currently before us, we realize that three new provisions will result in artists losing $74 million in copyright fees. First, there is the non-modernization of the private copy system, which, as is does not apply to digital audio players, results in artists losing an average of $13.8 million a year. This is directly related to our topic of discussion. The private copy system exists, but it applies to older material. Bill C-32 does not cover new material, such as MP3s or iPods. Because of this, artists are losing $13.8 million a year.

Similarly, the education exemption translates into a $40-million annual loss for the artist. This is because you want to enable those involved in education to get what they need on the Internet without having to pay copyright fees.

There is also the abolition of ephemeral recording, which you talked about earlier. The reason why broadcasters are asking for a royalty holiday—if I may call it that—on ephemeral recording is that the material has become digital. Now that it's costing them less, they want to pay less. This is resulting in artists losing another $21 million a year.

The losses add up to at least $74 million a year. That amount can also be much higher.

The YouTube exemption, that is, the exemption on user-generated content, means additional lost income for the artist. Collectives from around the world have signed a contract with Google to pay royalties on the music used on YouTube. On September 30, 2010, the Société des auteurs, compositeurs et éditeurs de musique de France, SACEM, announced the signing of such an agreement with YouTube. By adding the YouTube exemption, which applies to user-generated content, you are pulling the rug out from under Canadian collectives that could have negotiated the same royalty contracts with Google or YouTube.

Maybe you could set me straight on this, but I don't see any other rights in Bill C-32 that will be marketable, except perhaps in the case of photographers. However, it's also not clear that there will be more such rights than there are today. I don't see anything in Bill C-32 that would enable creators and artists to collect new royalties to offset the $74 million they're losing. I also don't see any business opportunities related to YouTube, Google and other similar websites.

5:15 p.m.

Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage

Barbara Motzney

Regarding the exemption on user-generated content, the bill sets out criteria. One criterion states that the content must used be for non-commercial purposes. If a product generates money, the exemption no longer applies.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

The content on YouTube does generate money. The commercial purpose is there, as YouTube sells ads.

5:15 p.m.

Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage

Barbara Motzney

I can't comment on that. I don't know all the details involved and I'm unaware of the specifics of the contracts between YouTube and...

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

If you looked into it, you could perhaps share the information with your colleagues. Maybe they've made a mistake.

5:15 p.m.

Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage

Barbara Motzney

This exemption includes several criteria. Non-commercial content cannot replace existing content. In addition, the new content may not conflict, monetarily or otherwise, in any significant way with the exploitation of the existing work.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

But these criteria won't result in creators getting compensated. All they will do is enable artists to spend money on bringing violators to justice.

5:15 p.m.

Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage

Barbara Motzney

I want to point out to the committee members the provision concerning user-generated content. We're talking about an exemption with very specific criteria.

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

My question is the same as the one asked on page 8. How can we guarantee that creators of content are compensated for their work?

I gave you examples where, not only were they not compensated, but they were losing their current income. Since you are here to tell us about ways creators can be compensated, you said that business models are evolving and that various value-added networks are being created.

What models and networks are you talking about?

5:20 p.m.

Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage

Barbara Motzney

Bill C-32 provides creators with new rights and tools for managing their content in the digital environment.

I don't know if there's time to go over each one in detail, but just to give you an idea, there is the making available right, the distribution right, information on the copyright system, the protection of this type of information, the reproduction right for performers, the term of protection for sound recordings.There are also several provisions for photographers. There are technical protection measures as an example of new tools for creators. There are also provisions for enablers, that is, those who facilitate copyright infringement in a digital environment or—

online piracy.

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Could you give us at least one right or tool that is marketable?

5:20 p.m.

Director General, Copyright Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage

Barbara Motzney

The bill covers a range, and these are some of the highlights of what is there to address the needs of creators.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you very much, Madame Motzney.

Thank you very much, Madame Lavallée.

We'll finish with our witnesses here. Thank you very much for appearing. Thank you very much for your testimony. We appreciate your feedback and your input into this report.

We are going to go into our in camera discussion, so I ask members of the public to please leave the room so that members of committee can discuss the report and provide the analysts with some direction.

[Proceedings continue in camera]