Canadian Heritage Committee on March 30th, 2010

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is very broad. I apologize if it has been asked in some form; I came late to the meeting.

There is certainly a fairly large consensus out there that people who produce copyright should receive compensation for it--that their copyright should not be infringed. Various solutions have been advanced by different groups as to how one can compensate people for their copyright, but I'd like to have your opinion.

Do you have a magic bullet here for the creators of copyright in the context of the copyright law and other regulations that would solve our problem and that would be technologically neutral?

[Jacob Glick]

The short answer is no, and I would be skeptical of anyone who tells you otherwise. The truth is that any country in the world that has attempted this, even with some of the most draconian regulations, or something slightly short of draconian, has failed to solve the problem. Ultimately, I think we have to find all sorts of new business opportunities for creators online, and the kind of mix of those things will provide ample opportunities for remuneration.

By the way, I agree with the premise, which is to say that people who create things need to get paid for those things, and that is how a cultural economy thrives. I agree with that. That's why, again, we talked a little bit about the advertising model, but there are also subscription models and pay-for-download models. All of those, I think, will work in different contexts, some in others.... I don't know yet of a magic bullet that's been created to stop piracy--and by the way, in the online or the offline world.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you. I sort of expected that there wasn't this magic solution.

You've mentioned that countries have tried different things. Are there any that you think are promising or that go partway in addressing this issue? Are there any that you'd care to talk about that you think might be promising?

[Jacob Glick]

Well, we talked a little bit before about the Canadian notice-and-notice system. I think that strikes the right balance between user rights and free expression and trying to prevent infringement. You could also look at the Chilean judicial notice and takedown system. It differentiates itself from the U.S. notice and takedown system.

I should add that I put this caveat in when I discuss notice and takedown, which is to say.... No, never mind: I will not add my caveat. I will say only that the Chilean judicial notice and takedown system adds a level of judicial oversight to the notice and takedown regime, which ensures some additional fairness, so that you don't get a takedown merely on a lawyer's letter or allegation. In the notice and takedown context, you get effectively the power of an injunction, which is an extreme judicial remedy merely on a letter. In the Chilean system, there is judicial oversight to that.

You could look at a hybrid model like that, but I think there's a lot of reason to think that the notice-and-notice system is one that has broad acceptance in the Canadian context among various stakeholders and is effective.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Ms. Gordon, please.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome. I am here this afternoon to replace someone. This is not usually my committee, but I certainly feel very fortunate to have the opportunity to be here as you're doing your presentation.

As you probably will realize, I'm not up to par with all these technology changes, but I certainly know that we are going through challenging and changing times. In reading some of the statistics here, I was noticing the fact that the new statistics show that the youth of today spend 18.5 hours online in comparison to watching 16 hours of television.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

That's every week.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes. That's weekly.

How do you think this has changed and how will it affect traditional programming and broadcasting? Do you think there's anything to be cautious of as a result of that?

[Jacob Glick]

Well, in a way, the Internet has been able to do what generations of parents and teachers could not do, which is to get kids to watch less TV.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes, we are accomplishing that, but....

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

We're jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

De Charybde en Scylla.

[Jacob Glick]

I think a lot of what's happening online is really exciting. It allows kids to engage in communities in what's sometimes called a lean-forward medium, instead of a lean-back medium; it's interactive, collaborative, and community based. Of course, nothing can replace going out and playing and hanging out with friends, so I'm not saying that anyone should spend all their time online or watching TV.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Coming from a background as a school teacher, I know that it's probably good that they're not watching TV, but going onto the Internet is not much more of an example, whereas, like you've said, being outside playing, enjoying fresh air and meeting with their friends is. But it is happening and I suppose it is changing us and causing us to be away from television.

The other question was this: do you believe there are any policies that we should be developing surrounding content on the Internet?

[Jacob Glick]

What in particular are you thinking about?

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Do you think there's anything more we should be covering that we may not be covering or that we're pretty well covering everything?

[Jacob Glick]

I think it's important to prevent online the same things that are illegal and objectionable offline. We need to ensure that we have strong measures online to prevent piracy, child exploitation imagery, and hate speech and defamation, the things that in Canadian society generally are inappropriate or illegal content. We need to find legal mechanisms to ensure that we address those issues online, too.

The precise legal mechanisms will vary depending on the issue and that's a much longer discussion. But at the level of general principle, I don't think the Internet should be a free-for-all.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Oh, no. Because I think there are things that we have to be cautious of as well when we're online--

[Jacob Glick]

Absolutely.

I have something else that goes to your point. You mentioned that you were an educator before being a parliamentarian. I think a really important point to make to parliamentarians and educators is on the importance of digital literacy in this environment. That is to say, for many years in schools as part of the curriculum, we taught kids how to watch TV in a smart way or how to read newspapers in a smart way, right? We hope we did that.

We need to give them those same skills for the online world. We need to give them the skills for how to differentiate between a site that has legitimate information and a site that has bull and for how to stay safe online. For all of the components of just experiencing life online, they need those same literacy skills. So again, for the question on what is part of a national digital strategy, digital literacy, in my view, is a critical component of a national digital strategy.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

With that, as chair, I'd just like to thank you so much for your presentation today.

Just to let you know, you mentioned one of my constituents in one of your answers, a guy by the name of Justin Bieber. I must say that I have belonged to the Stratford Agricultural Society for quite a number of years, and this young lad, years ago, would start off our fair. He'd be there playing and all the young girls and other young people were around. Just a couple of years after us watching him open the fair, suddenly everyone around the world knows who Justin Bieber is, just like overnight.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Pardon?