Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 14th, 2011

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

The issue of the $60 million, to me, is staggering. I don't know of any public broadcaster in the world that waits until the end of its financial year to find out if it has enough money to go into the following year. It seems you have to come every year and beg, cap in hand. We see the minister dangling the money—will he or will he not?

What happens if the budget comes down and that $60 million isn't there? Will that blow a hole through this whole five-year plan that we're looking at?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

The answer is that not having access to the $60 million, remembering that these dollars have been available to us since 2001, would be catastrophic for us because it would challenge the speed at which we could actually expand our services to get to the 7.5 million Canadians who are not served right now by the CBC. It would slow down the speed at which we would be more digital. And we are the leaders right now in that field. We can't slow down, because the speed at which the applications change, the speed at which people want our services, at whichever time on whatever platform, is not going to slow down. So it would be very disappointing.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Again, we had all-party consensus just two or three years ago, but since then, something has certainly changed in the water the Conservatives are drinking. We see hostile statements from the minister. I don't think I've ever heard at this committee the Conservative members ask a positive question about the CBC. I'm hoping that'll be different today.

Are you concerned about this apparent move to an openly hostile relationship coming from the federal government in terms of its commitment to the public broadcaster and your ability to do your job?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

The only thing I can tell you about is my relationship with the minister, who I work with on a regular basis. I have a very good relationship with my minister. I think he understands the challenges we have. And I've said this many times in a fun way: he's a techie. So he understands the digital part of what we do. We hope that his interest in and support for the CBC will continue.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

We received a report from the Timiskaming branch of the Association canadienne-française de l'Ontario (ACFO), and the message was very clear. Radio-Canada has played a key role in French-speaking communities. Tell us about your mandate to support the development of the francophone culture and identity across Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

Mr. Lafrance, you have the floor.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

Naturally, that is a key part of our mandate and something that differentiates our French service. For example, roughly 12 of our 20 radio stations are outside Quebec. So it is important to understand that we play a crucial role as the only provider of French-language radio in these communities, except for a few community radio stations. So we often serve as the connection between everyone and the francophonie, generally speaking. That is very significant.

With that in mind, we have spent the past few years trying to improve these services by going everywhere and creating not just news programs, but also variety programs.

Today, we focus a great deal on developing specific digital services. French speakers outside Quebec have the same media-based needs as all Canadians. Mr. Lacroix was just talking about the economic model. And because there is no business model for serving French speakers outside Quebec, we serve an absolutely critical and unique function, and we are very aware of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Lafrance.

Mr. Del Mastro, over to you.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Lacroix, thank you for your presentation today.

I want to take this funding bogeyman out of the room. I know that people want to keep on casting it out there, but the reality is that our party made a promise that we would maintain or increase funding each and every year for the CBC. We've done that. The $60 million, it seems to be of some question; obviously that was....

We've only followed in doing...in conducting ourselves the same way as the Liberal Party did, in that fashion. If they object to it now, they certainly didn't when they created it in 2001.

We've kept our word to maintain or increase funding for the CBC each and every year. That is a long-term commitment that we've made, to maintain or increase funding for the CBC, and our record demonstrates that this is what we're doing.

I took some notes as you were speaking, and I have a couple of questions. You talked about partnerships, seeking partnerships. You talked about a “hyper-local” approach in your five-year plan. You also said that you recognize that you can't be all things to all people. I wrote all these things down, because I think it's important to recognize....

If we look back at the old model of the CBC, certainly you could look at the Dominion broadcasting network. You had a lot of private sector partnerships right across all provinces, in cities all across Canada, and I think you did have a very hyper-local presence at that time. I would argue that you were likely quite relevant to all communities and to all people. It wasn't universally popular, however. Some of CBC's own supporters didn't like it because the CBC didn't own it, and they had some concerns about that.

Are you concerned that you might get some pushback from some of the folks who actually...? My feeling is that you can't really have an open discussion about the CBC, because your comments will get...you're in serious danger of being hijacked.

The reality is that there are some folks out there who really think they own the CBC—not just that it's a public entity but that they actually own it, and should be able to tell you what to do.

Are you concerned that you might get a backlash from some of the folks who...? I can think of a few groups.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

There are three things, I think, Mr. Del Mastro, in your comments or questions. You talk about partnerships, you talk about hyper-local, and you talk about “all things to all people”.

Let me start with the all things to all people. We understand that in this environment we can't be that. However, what's very important about the public broadcaster right now is that it has to be able to create with you, and with everybody in this room, a relationship that is so special for something that we do, as a public broadcaster, that you will have a special relationship with us. That's the comment, and that's how you should be interpreting all things to all people.

In terms of partnerships, there are different genres of programming—sports comes to mind, and kids—that would lend themselves very easily to partnerships. In this environment, the price to play in those environments is now too expensive for us to be by ourselves in there. I gave an example recently that even in the States right now, NBC, who has owned the Olympic Games for a number of years, has indicated that it might actually be bidding for the next four games with CBS as a partner. That's never been done before.

Their reality is also our reality in Canada. That's an example of a partnership in a genre that we obviously would be looking for, as we can't do everything by ourselves.

On your last point, about the hyper-local presence, Sylvain has initiatives right now that would look to serve the people who.... For instance, around Montreal, you have a million people living on the south shore and another million on the north shore. Instead of simply having a station that delivers information to Montreal and its surrounding areas, websites that target those communities, instead of our having the standard services, would be of interest to us. We think we would serve Canadians in a better way by doing that.

Those are my remarks to your questions.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you. I think that's a great approach, because I think people in local communities want to actually see themselves, or people they know, or their communities, in their news, in their coverage. I think it's the right approach. There's certainly no shortage of information coming at us from everywhere, but sometimes what we want to see is what's close to us, and to keep up to speed with that. So I think it's a great approach.

I'm limited in terms of time here, but I did want to ask you a couple of other questions.

You talked about partnerships. What is your partnership with the Friends of Canadian Broadcasting? What is your relationship with them?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We have no relationship with Friends of Canadian Broadcasting.

We've actually written them a couple of times to ensure that in whatever press release or information they put out, it is clearly indicated that they have no relationship with us. We wanted them to make sure that, when they want to raise money, it's very clear that the money they raise doesn't come back to us directly or indirectly.

We have nothing to do with them.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I don't think that is overly clear in some of the things they send out. In fact, some of the folks in my riding feel that they're sending money to the CBC. But can you clearly indicate that no money that goes to Friends of Canadian Broadcasting is coming to the CBC?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Absolutely, sir.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Have you ever had to ask them to cease and desist on anything? Have you ever had to get involved in any legal actions with them?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

No, we have not.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Very good.

Do they always agree with you? Would you consider them a supporter of CBC and what you're trying to do?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We've had our issues.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

You've had your issues. I've had my issues with them too.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Del Mastro.

Madam Crombie.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Lacroix, Mr. Lafrance, and Ms. Stewart for being here with us again today.

I want to congratulate you on your five-year plan and the visual presentation. I think the plan is rich with local regional programming, and some of the new specialty channels look very exciting. I respect that you are here today not asking for any more money, just the money that you've been promised by the government, the $60 million in funding.

The parliamentary secretary says that they promise, the Conservative government, to maintain or increase CBC funding. So have they?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

The answer is yes, in the last two or three years. I have been here since January 1, 2008. The appropriation has been about the same and the $60 million has been available to us.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

With respect to the appropriation, there was, as Mr. Angus pointed out earlier, a motion passed by this committee in February 2008 on our report, CBC/Radio-Canada: Defining distinctiveness in the changing media landscape. We recommended in 4.2 that the $60 million become permanently added to the corporation's core funding.

Have you ever had any discussions with the government about a permanent appropriation?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We have not had particular conversations about that. We have had conversations about making sure that the $60 million is available to us on perhaps more than a one-year basis. Those are the conversations I've had.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

It would certainly add to your measure of financial stability and security, I'm sure, if it could be.

Are you concerned that the money will or won't be extended this year?