Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 28th, 2011

[Scott Hutton]

We have already seen some drafts of ads they will broadcast. They are getting ready.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

What will the consequences be for broadcasters who are not ready?

[Scott Hutton]

Most broadcasters have submitted their plan to us. So, we are confident that they will be ready.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

But what will the consequences be if they are not?

[Scott Hutton]

For now, we intend to take away their broadcasting rights as of September 1.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

Mrs. Lavallée, go ahead.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Hutton, I was surprised to hear you say to my colleague earlier that no demographic profile has been established. You talked about 900,000 people who have over-the-air television. Many studies have been conducted on the topic. One of them is a study by the Canadian Media Research Consortium that was published in September 2006. The study analyzed all the data collected through a survey conducted in collaboration with BBM.

The study revealed that those who have over-the-air television are low-income individuals, seniors, disabled people, downtown residents, immigrants and rural dwellers. They represent 9% of the population. Downtown residents who watch television on the Internet and people who decide not to have television for all kinds of intellectual reasons make up this percentage. In addition, by focusing on the province-by-province figures, the study found that 14% of people in Quebec used antennas to watch television, which is the highest percentage among all provinces. Regarding your figure of 9%, Quebec's 14% should be taken into consideration because it brings down the percentage for the rest of Canada to 6% or 7%.

This is a big concern for me, since it affects many people in Quebec. You talked about 900,000 people, but I don't know how many of them live in Quebec. If you divide that number by the number of households, what figure do you end up with?

[Scott Hutton]

We don't have those figures on hand, but you said that in Quebec...

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

First, I would like to finish my remarks.

So, it has been determined that the figure is 14% in Quebec. In other words, the broadcasting mode shift affects more people. You can submit those figures to us. If you cannot do it today, you can send them to the chair soon. What's worrisome is that, in most cases, people who have over-the-air television—aside from the few intellectuals who find other ways to watch television or who do not watch it for intellectual reasons—are low-income individuals, who consequently need more help.

Despite that fact, no measures have been taken to remedy the situation. In the United States, a coupon system was implemented. Perhaps this system has not been very effective, but at least, something was done. In France, low-income people have also been provided with assistance. However, here, this part of the population will be left to fend for themselves. Most big industrialized countries, such as the United States, the United Kingdom, France and Italy, have focused on the needs of low-income citizens and have devised measures to assist them. We have done absolutely nothing about this. We've given the industry free rein when it comes to this. In addition, the ad campaigns are supposed to start airing tomorrow, on March 1. That's what was announced. I see now that this initiative will not begin on March 1. I don't understand how, despite the many studies conducted by the CRTC, you will leave 900,000 people to fend for themselves like this.

[Scott Hutton]

I don't think that we are leaving 900,000 Canadians to fend for themselves. The problem used to be much bigger, and our objective was to reduce it as much as possible. The measures we have taken have obviously excluded certain markets so that people wouldn't lose service completely. This was our main concern. Therefore, our first objective was to minimize loss of service. We have gone from a very broad range consisting of some 700 transmitters and reduced that number to 193. It was—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, but look at things from the consumers' point of view. Low-income people who live in rural municipalities and are used to watching television will be forced as of tomorrow morning to spend $30 or $300, depending on the case, or they will no longer have television services.

[Scott Hutton]

People in rural municipalities are not forced to go digital. Analog service will still be provided in rural areas, and no changes will occur. This is one of the steps that have been implemented.

A great many television companies that provide services on channels 52 to 69 in rural areas and were slated to move their signal or stop broadcasting for coordination purposes have decided to move their signal in order to continue broadcasting in analog mode.

What we said during our presentation is that, after we talked to Shaw Communications, the company decided to provide service—through satellite receivers and dishes—to people in areas where the service would no longer be available. The old service will be replaced by a completely new one free of charge in order to basically ensure that those people do not lose their service.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

How many people have you left to their own devices?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mrs. Lavallée. Thank you, Mr. Hutton. Mr. Angus, you have the floor.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all of you for coming. At the outset, I hope you'll indulge me if I veer off topic slightly.

We've heard news reports that the CRTC is going to drop its study on changing the regulations regarding station owners promoting or publishing false and misleading journalism as long as it doesn't endanger human life. Is it the position of the CRTC that this proposed change is no longer going to be studied?

[John Keogh, Senior General Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission]

Yes. About a week ago, at the Canadian Media Production Association's conference, the chairman said publicly that in light of the position of the standing joint committee the commission would no longer be proceeding with that proposed change and that the existing regulation would remain in place.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I will follow up at the end of our meeting on a motion.

I'm interested in this issue of the national education campaign, because in the United States, there was a big lead-up, a lot of awareness, and a lot of preparation for the public. It seems to me that I don't know anybody who's aware that the transition is coming. I've never heard anybody talk about it. People think television just is television.

So I'm concerned, because it sounds as if we're looking at a number of hodge-podge solutions. For example, CBC might stay on analog, and in rural areas Shaw is going to offer people a box. How are we going to have a coordinated media strategy so that people know what the options are and are given enough time to look at them?

[Namir Anani]

Well, we are currently collaborating quite closely on this issue with members of the industry, but also with Industry Canada and the Department of Canadian Heritage. As Scott indicated earlier, the public service announcement will be coming out soon. We have specific guidelines for that aspect, and we are also in discussion with the industry on this aspect.

But clearly, the order of magnitude between Canada and the United States, as you mentioned, is somewhat different. The United States has gone to several thousand full-power transmitters in the transition to digital. In Canada, we've brought it down from 746 transmitters to 193, so basically 25% of all of that, and a very much smaller order of magnitude to whatever it is in the United States.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I've run a home-based business for a number of years. When the computer came, we could decide whether to run the computer on the Internet or talk on the phone. Then the fax machine came in and we ran dedicated phone lines for the faxes and we sent them out on cards. Then we started drilling all kinds of ugly holes through our walls and stringing wire so that we could have a hub for our computers. We thought we were state of the art.

Now when I go home to see my wife and kids on the weekend, they're all sitting in different rooms with laptops. There are no wires anywhere. They're using Wi-Fi, which in the 1980s was junk band-space that nobody knew what to do with. Now everybody is using Wi-Fi.

I ask that because we have no idea where we're going with respect to the potential of the spectrum and what new applications are going to be used. Has the CRTC examined the spectrum that is available? How much is going to go for wireless? Has there been any discussion about the use of the white spaces? Have you done any examination of the possibility of reserving some of that band-space for future applications not yet thought of?

[Namir Anani]

As you know, the auction of the spectrum, the 700-megahertz spectrum that will be freed as a result of the 52 to 69, is really the role of Industry Canada. However, we do have a very good understanding of what's taking shape, not only in the United States but around the world--in Europe, in Australia, in other countries as well.

So we have a good understanding of these issues. We clearly know that there is that aspect of white space. In fact there are discussions, and some decisions have been made by the FCC recently, on the use of white space, which in the United States was decided to be an unlicensed frequency.

To go back to your question, I think the 700 megahertz is the core or the pillar of innovation that's going to take place around the world. It's a source of economic development as well.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

You don't have to tell us, but do you have recommendations on the white spaces similar to those of the FCC? I mean, they've looked at it. We're talking about innovation. It could be all gobbled up by one or two big players and they could sit on it.

Are we looking at the need to make sure that those white spaces become available for other options?

[Namir Anani]

As I mentioned earlier, Industry Canada is looking into that. They have information in this regard.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

In terms of the 700 megahertz, we're talking about 52 to 69 coming open. That's certainly a good chunk of real estate. So what happens to two to 51?

[Namir Anani]

Basically, that's where most of the stations will be transitioning to--two to 51.