Canadian Heritage Committee on April 13th, 2010

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You're also watching American programming, which is CBC's choice, not the government's.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, we'll move on.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for attending this morning.

I just want to go back to Madam Lavallée's line of questioning, because you never got an opportunity to answer. I think what she might be getting at is the digital memory levy, or the iTax, as it's been coined. I think that's what she's getting at. Maybe you'd like to share some of your thoughts on that.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I would.

First, if you don't mind, I will respond to Mr. Angus that on the Canada Media Fund the dominant concern raised by the Auditor General with regard to the old structure was the appearance of conflict of interest. We have the governance right. This fund was on the brink of completely disappearing. We brought the partners back to the table. We established a fund of $350 million this year that will support the creation of Canadian content.

Funding for CBC is still on the table and will go up every year going forward. One-third of the envelope is reserved for French language creations, of which one has to assume that CBC will very well be a large beneficiary thereof. We have more money on the table than ever before. The guaranteed envelope isn't there, but there is more money on the table for CBC and all broadcasters than ever before. This is a good news story, so to spin it as you have is not true.

With regard to the bridge financing, we didn't go that route. We went a different route. It wasn't a loss of employment. They sold some assets that they, frankly, weren't using anyway. They had some empty floor space in downtown Toronto that they are now leasing out, and they have found ways to make things work because of the leadership of Hubert Lacroix and his team. I have to say they have done a great job of managing a shortfall that, by the way, everybody in the broadcasting sector felt, and we worked with them through that. In my judgment, it's a success story, and if you read Hubert Lacroix's annual report, he describes it that way.

Thank you for your comments, Mrs. Lavallée. I always appreciate receiving gifts.

I am very pleased to see that you are prepared for the debate that will take place over our copyright bill and our digital strategy program.

With regard to digital strategy, I would want to say this both to Madam Lavallée and to the entire committee. The idea of a digital strategy, which includes copyright as well, is to recognize that this is a flowing river that is going to change over time. The idea of necessarily saying, as any government, that we have the perfect digital strategy forever is the wrong way to look at it. We don't know where technology is going to be. We don't know where new platforms are going to go.

Five years ago, for example, the largest selling mobile device in Canada was the Motorola RAZR. Now they're invisible. BlackBerry comes up with a new model every three months. The iPhone is coming out with a new model in June. The iPad has come out. There are all kinds of platforms. Android...Microsoft has a new phone.

The digital universe is changing in ways that none of us can predict two years hence, let alone ten years hence. The reality is, what the government needs to do is not say that we have a digital strategy that will necessarily work for the next generation, but to set in place a mindset--in the approach to government programming, the way we develop legislation, and the way we look at how government operates and funds things--that forever recognizes a tectonic shift in how people are consuming Canadian content, multimedia, and arts and culture, and to support the creative economy not only in the way in which citizens consume their information and data and entertainment but in how Canadians are creating it to put it out there for Canadians and the world.

This isn't about having a digital strategy that we can cement now that will be forever au courant, but having a way in which a government thinks about recognizing a massive shift that's going on in the way in which information is created and consumed. That's what a digital strategy is about.

Of course, there are some contemporary issues that we're going to have: the transition to digital television and copyright legislation. Having a digital approach to things means recognizing that all government programs, from the Canada Media Fund, to our book fund, and to our music fund, which now has an envelope for helping people market things online...everything has a component that recognizes the digital fact of today and the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

You have 45 seconds.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, you talked a little about the endowment incentive component of the Canada Cultural Investment Fund, which is $14 million for 64 different arts organizations. This is something that's really working. Can you expand on that a little?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

You have 30 seconds.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The website at www.pch.gc.ca has all the details. It has worked very well. We're very pleased with the responses we're getting from Canadians. It's something we're going to continue supporting and improving upon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Ms. Dhalla.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you very much for coming to the committee today, Minister.

I want to touch on an issue that has actually been raised by many of my constituents in Brampton—Springdale. We have a very multicultural, multilingual, and multi-religious riding. Community channels are very important to many of those constituents and to Canadians. Canadians pay almost $133 million in subscriber fees for community channels. Over the past few years, we've seen a reduction of almost 86% for distinct community TV services. In a province such as New Brunswick, where there were nine community TV channels at one point, we have only one at this particular point.

We've also seen that only 30% of current community programming is actually produced by local community members. Seventy percent of community programming is produced by staff versus the local community on the ground. In the past 20 years, the CRTC has only assessed this three times. I want to know your thoughts on this.

I know in the past few weeks, in particular, CACTUS has raised this issue. I believe a hearing is going to be held by the CRTC on the 26th. They have been asking for further information through the Access to Information Act, but they have not been able to receive it.

What are your thoughts in terms of more transparency and accountability? Does the department have a particular vision on how to work with these communities and cable companies to ensure we increase community programming and actually get more volunteers on the ground to produce local content for local community programs?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you for the question.

I can tell you that I come from a very diverse riding. About 40% of my constituents are visible minorities, many of whom are new Canadians. There are more Korean Canadians in my district than in any other district in the country. The value of local broadcasting, especially for new Canadians in the language in which they are most comfortable, is critical.

By the way, we actually saw some success in Vancouver with the broadcast in Punjabi of the gold medal hockey games for the Olympics. It was a huge success for them and others.

It's very important, but I think the first thing is to get the assessment right. I know the CRTC is now looking at this. We look forward to their report. We'll obviously react to the report with the responses that are needed in terms of funding or talking to our agencies about how they may want to approach things differently.

Going back to what Charlie said about the Canada Media Fund, they have an independent board that governs and decides how the money ought to be directed and funded. They have to do it within the context of guidelines from the government. We have guidelines that we give to the Canada Media Fund, as I said. For example, one-third goes to French content. It's certainly a fund that could be considered over time as a source of funding for non-official language broadcasting endeavours.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

In terms of the department, I know the cable companies have not handed over documents that have been requested numerous times.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm sorry. Are you saying they haven't handed it to the CRTC?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

They haven't handed it to CACTUS. Do you foresee the department perhaps working with CACTUS and other organizations that are interested in this to ensure greater transparency and accountability?

They found logs. The cable companies are apparently not even keeping proper logs. They have community programming, but instead of involving local TV content, they actually bring people on as guests and say that constitutes community or local programming. Canadians in those particular communities are ultimately losing out.

Perhaps the department can look into this further and work with some of the organizations on the ground, such as CACTUS and other stakeholders who are interested in ensuring better programming.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Jean-Pierre Blais, from my department, deals with this file. He may have more to add.

[Jean-Pierre Blais, Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Yes, we're obviously following the file quite closely. We've seen it. You'll of course understand this is at the heart of the regulatory issue among the community channels, the cable licensees, and the CRTC.

We're following the comments being made, but we are waiting because the minister can't interfere. The CRTC is an arm's-length organization. We're monitoring it, but we're waiting for the CRTC to fulfill its process. They're the ones with the statutory mandate to ensure that broadcasters and licensees, such as cable licensees, are meeting the regulatory obligations.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I want to make a very quick comment, just to wrap it up before we have to go to the next question.

It is a regulatory issue, as you mentioned, but I hope that through the Canada Media Fund and the guidelines the department establishes and the investments they make on behalf of all Canadians there is going to be a greater emphasis and effort to ensure that all broadcasters meet some of these requirements. This is going to be the only way that ensures that people on the ground actually get the opportunity to watch programming that is culturally and traditionally sensitive.

I can tell you, on the ground, people are watching programs, as James said, in their own language for their community, so community programming is incredibly important. Hopefully the department in years to come can play a leadership role in establishing that.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

By the way, the CBC has a role to play in this, and they do play it. As you know, they broadcast in eight aboriginal languages in the north, so this isn't just a private sector concern.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Madame Lavallée, please.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I want to come back to the issue of digitization, to the transition to digital broadcasting.

I was trying to explain to you, using specialty music as an example, that there is currently nothing for digital broadcasting. All you are doing is taking money already allocated to creative programming and to broadcasting and putting it into music digitization.

You did the same thing with the Canada Media Fund. There was no increase in funding, or additional money for the creative and production processes. However, a substantial portion of the money in the Canada Media Fund had been earmarked for digital gadgets. I use the word “gadgets” because it is impossible to develop a digital broadcasting strategy by neglecting a large segment of the population that has yet to keep pace and that cannot be overlooked.

For instance in 16 months—August 2011 is really just around the corner—9% of Canadians and 15% of Quebeckers will not have access to digital television as we know it today. As far as telephones are concerned, 13% of Quebeckers own a smart phone, but only 8% of them know use it to access the Internet. So then, all of the current talk about “web episodes“ and “mob episodes” will mean nothing to them. They draw a blank when they hear these expressions.

So then, the small scattered steps that you are taking do no constitute a comprehensive digital broadcasting strategy. There is no sense of any real strategy or vision.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

First of all, I disagree that our efforts have been scattered. Our departments have been focusing on a process and on a policy. Our budgets and policies reflect our desire for Canadians to be able to access Canadian content using whichever platform they choose.

This is not a change that is being driven by government or by a small niche market. It is being driven by young people, by the new generation that wants to choose the way it will access Canadian content. The government is not the only party responsible for this change.

The CBC is probably in the forefront of this movement. CBC officials understand that in Quebec and across the country, the demand for new digital technologies is strong and they want Canadians to be able to access Canadian content using whichever platform they choose. Government funding is not earmarked entirely for digital content creation. However, some money has been set aside to ensure that this area is not overlooked.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

How much new money will you be allocating to digital broadcasting in order to ensure that this process works properly and to stop taking money from artists and producers?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

First of all, there is the Canada Music Fund.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

In the case of the Canada Music Fund, what you did was take $1.3 million from the Canadian Musical Diversity Program, which has been eliminated, and divert it to music digitization. That is what you did.