Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 29th, 2011

[Peter Dinsdale]

Absolutely: it was well received.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Mr. MacKenzie, you talked about legacies not being buildings, but being more about ideas and thematic approaches, I guess, for this 150th anniversary for Canada. Can you be more specific in what you'd like to see coming out of this, basically from the 150th in 2014 in P.E.I. and then also the nationwide one in 2017?

[David MacKenzie]

Thank you for the question.

The philosophy that is growing is one of looking at the existing state of infrastructure in the country, and in Prince Edward Island specifically, and asking if we need to build and create new problems that all of us as public officials have to monitor very closely. When we look across the breadth of existing organizations--the Trans Canada Trail is an excellent one--we think there are a lot of winners existing that need strengthening and support. As a philosophy, we are suggesting that perhaps we should think of legacy in a different way.

There's an example in Prince Edward Island that best illustrates it. There's a movement afoot to create a new provincial museum in the province of P.E.I. I will not get into that debate, but we have a decentralized system of heritage right now in P.E.I. There are seven historic sites across the island. They are all in desperate need of programming and capital dollars.

As a thought, instead of creating a new museum with new management, new expenses, and new funding requests, we're suggesting as one concept that we build on the existing seven sites across the province. They are in rural parts of the province and they reflect all cultures on Prince Edward Island. That's an example, Mr. Armstrong, of that philosophy of supporting existing infrastructure.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

You're not looking at big, new initiatives and grandiose buildings and places that mark 150 years. You're looking more at supporting existing structures and finishing or supporting projects that are under way to make sure we do them right.

[David MacKenzie]

Exactly. Fulfilling the dreams of existing projects is the suggestion I'm making--and that we made in the draft document--but it has not been approved formally by partners at this point. Yes, that's the philosophy.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

What government structure do you have in P.E.I. for the 150th celebration in 2014 ?

[David MacKenzie]

What we're proposing is a national advisory board of 11 to 13 people. Similar to the Confederation Centre of the Arts, they have a national trust. It's very helpful in connecting with the provinces and territories, with a provincial focus at the board of directors level. Then there's a project review committee that would be made up of the deputy VP of ACOA and Canadian Heritage senior officials out of Moncton to sort of govern the budgeting perspective.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Your time is up, Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

On to you, Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Good morning.

Thanks to all of you for joining us.

I try to learn something new every day and I learned something new today: I didn't know the Lachine Canal was part of the Trans Canada Trail. Part of it runs though my riding, so I am very excited.

My first question is for Mr. Dinsdale.

You've touched on some very hard facts about conditions today. With that in mind, I'm just wondering.... We've heard a lot of previous testimony about reconciliation and about connecting with that history and connecting with that present, but in a way that moves us forward as opposed to pointing fingers and saying “this happened”. With that in mind, for the 150th anniversary, what do you think the reach-out to the first nations and aboriginal community in general in Canada would be? It's a hard question.

[Peter Dinsdale]

Well, the Olympic question I think was telling with respect to a process in outreach for that particular event, and also for 2017, in whatever you recommend with respect to a particular curriculum, event schedule, or maybe a series of events leading up to it.

Our national chief has called for a fundamental resetting of the relationship between the first nations and the crown, as we describe it. The 150th anniversary is a natural time for us to reflect upon that. If we're going to be engaged in a national dialogue on what activities we should undertake, it is incumbent upon us to talk about this chapter of our history and talk about how we move forward.

I think the 2010 Olympics provide an interesting framework with which to begin those conversations. Dave and I had a brief conversation about engaging with them directly on that in the planning and the process. I'd also encourage us to lift our heads up a bit and reflect more broadly on where we're going. I think the reconciliation movement is incredibly important. Everything can always be better, but I think the apology and the follow-up have been significant. I think the signing of the UN declaration has been significant. But there's a lot more work we need to do.

Recently, for some reason--I'm not sure why--I ended up at the National Film Board website and viewed their documentary on the 1987 constitutional conferences that were meant to deal with the first nations issue, the aboriginal issue that wasn't resolved prior to 1982. It really is telling in regard to the kind of the work we have outstanding as a country to do on the place of first nations in this society, and I think we're seeing some of those challenges in the broader conditions we have today.

So that's almost out of the purview of this particular study, but I think it's important that we reflect upon those challenges, and that we don't lose that in this idea of parties and commemorative trails. That's not to disrespect the trails, but I don't think we need to lose this with respect to the broader vision we have of the country and where we're going as a society. I think it's an important part to keep at the forefront.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Any time you celebrate or commemorate a moment in history, it is important to look at both sides, at the balance between where we've come from and where we're going. It's a common saying that you don't know your future until you know your past, and I'll take that a step further to say that you can't move into your future until you reconcile with your past.

My other question is along the same lines. What would the message be from the aboriginal community to themselves and to Canadians? This is a hypothetical question, but what do you think the message would be for the 150th anniversary?

[Peter Dinsdale]

I think it would be very much that we're still here, we're part of Confederation, and we're moving forward together.

I'm not that old, and when I was in grade eight studying history, I learned that the Indians died with the buffalo. I saw the big picture at the end of a railway track with all these big buffalo bones all piled up and some buffalo soldier with his gun, on the mound, looking quite vindicated. Then we moved on to the rest of Canadian history.

I think there is a much greater story to tell, and it is coming out. The apology process is important, but you see polls and you read the comments on websites, like those under the story on Attawapiskat last night, and you understand that there is such a lack of understanding of the history, the current conditions, and the current relationship. That's the kind of thing we need to bust through together.

So I think the primary message is that we're here, we have a historical relationship, and we're going to continue and grow that relationship moving forward.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

For all our other guests, I guess, on making the tie to the connection, what kind of interaction with the aboriginal peoples has there been in developing the Trans Canada Trail as far as...anything...? Has there been much contact? Has there been much interaction on the development of the trail?

[Paul LaBarge]

There has been some, but not as much as we want. In fact, I was speaking with Peter just before we started this session, and our belief is--as he has articulated--that it is essential that aboriginal people be a part of the Trans Canada Trail. There are lands that are on the route of the Trans Canada Trail.

In fact, I was saying that one of the most moving experiences that the Trans Canada Trail has seen was a presentation by a group of Métis to our meeting in Saskatoon, I believe, about the black horse trail. That trail was in fact an original Métis trading route. They wanted to register it as part of the Trans Canada Trail. More significantly, they had organized a gathering of Métis who had actually travelled the trail using traditional methods, with traditional equipment, traditional camping, the whole works, right across this whole section. Truth be told, it brought tears to everybody's eyes to see the sincerity and the commitment that these individuals displayed.

We believe that the Trans Canada Trail can be part of the educational outreach, and that the aboriginal community will be seen as a continuing, vibrant part of the fabric of our country, both in the past and in the future.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I'm--

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You had just one second, and now you have no more at all--

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We'll go to you, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our guests.

I want to get to a specific technical issue with our three guests.

Before I do that, I've been waiting for some time now, Mr. Dinsdale, for you to come here, because I think your story or stories will play an incredibly large part in the 150. I would not presume to know where to start telling the story you want to tell.

No, actually, that's not true: there is one story I'd like you to tell. I'm hoping, from a personal point of view, that the story of the Beothuk in Newfoundland and Labrador is one of those stories. I think that serves as an example of how you can tell the story of nations within a nation in the 150. What an incredible story, as you've mentioned. It is more than the basic narrative that's out there right now.

There is the War of 1812 and there are the constitutional talks of 1987, as you've brought up, but there's so much more to this, and the human element is played out in sound bites of a minute and 30 seconds every night, and quite frankly, that's a shame.

I think 2017 will serve as a pinnacle, a fantastic example not only of creating something for people to visit but also of the message that goes out about the myriad stories across the country.

That being said, yes, I'm very interested in museums. I'm very interested in these centres people visit. But there is another way for people, young and old, who are not able to visit but want to know the story and want to know first nations history. I think there is a substantial investment we can make in the production of content across this country. You mentioned the National Film Board with regard to 1987. Do you think that is a key component?

[Peter Dinsdale]

They're certainly a major player. I'm fascinated to see old media translate to new media and how they've opened up their archive for all Canadians and for the world, I assume, to view and utilize. It's spectacular.

I think we have a fourth national broadcaster in the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network. I don't pretend that it's perfect--no one is--but I think it's a tremendous lightning rod for us to go to.

We have a terrific arts community. We get a glimpse into it as Canadians every year at the National Aboriginal Achievement Awards in the wonderful show that the foundation puts on. I think we have many, many talented artists out there who require support.

This department, frankly, has a major role in supporting them, and it has. I would continue to support them, and perhaps a particular focus on 2017 would be in order as well.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'm glad you mentioned that, because APTN actually is a world example. It's actually used.... When I was in Europe, people brought it up with me when we discussed public broadcasting.

Switching gears for just a moment, perhaps at some other point I can have a conversation about the Beothuk.

Whenever we put together money for a celebration on a local level.... I agree with you that the initiative should be local. The content and flavour of how you celebrate 150 years is a narrative that can be told by the smallest community. When it comes to our funding, yes, Canadian Heritage obviously is always there, but the regional development agencies are really kings and queens when it comes to the funding.

You talked of ACOA; I know of ACOA. Across this country, we have three or I guess four others now. How do you see your role with them in partnering to create this? Or should the mechanism be one big funding mechanism to look after all projects across the nation?

I see that you're eager, so maybe I'll stop here.

[Paul LaBarge]

I'm actually going to let Deb answer this one, because it reflects the experience she has been developing with these organizations throughout the years.

Go ahead.