Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 30th, 2012

[Jayson Hilchie]

That's what we're working toward. We're working to grow the industry here in Canada and to ensure that the labour is available and that the support from the governments is available to ensure that companies start here, companies invest here, and the industry continues to grow.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

You talked about the availability of skilled workers. We look around Canada and see 15% of youth unemployed and governments taking many steps to try to provide employment for youth. This is a young industry. Don't the people who work in this industry tend to be younger than in many other industries in the country?

[Jayson Hilchie]

I'm not sure, when comparing it with other industries in the country. The industry definitely employs new graduates, and the new graduates who come out of schools are options for our employers, and the companies that are in the industry are definitely out looking for those people.

The issue really is around the intermediate to senior level employees required for the video game companies to build studios and build games. It's difficult for any industry to build a company around new grads. What is needed is a good mix between new grads and intermediate and senior employees in order to mentor and train those new grads so that they can eventually become the intermediate and senior employees mentoring new grads who come out of our universities.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Mr. D'Astous, you have 500 employees. What percentage of your employees would be under 30?

[Stéphane D'Astous]

The average age of the dev staff is about 34 years. That's the average of about 400 people who are working specifically on development.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Probably 50% of your employees are under 30, at least.

[Stéphane D'Astous]

I need to add that we have a quality assurance department—testers, if you want to put it in different terms. We have 100 testers, and these guys and girls are much younger, because that's an entry-level position. The average age of our testers is maybe 26.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

There is no doubt, I think you'd all agree, that there is opportunity here. With a high percentage of youth unemployment in Canada and the struggle to find employment, especially that first job, there is probably some opportunity, if we can support the growth of this industry, to move that percentage down.

Would you all agree on that? It's a younger industry.

[A voice]

Yes.

[Jason Kee, Director, Policy and Legal Affairs, Entertainment Software Association of Canada]

I would certainly say that's fair.

There are two components to the talent challenge that we face.

One is the immediate challenge that we have at the intermediate and senior levels, where we can't find the expertise. There is a lack of domestic supply, which necessitates our sourcing it from abroad.

This is not the general preference of the industry. We pay a premium to bring in these people. We'd much prefer to have them domestically, if we could. It's only out of necessity that we have to go abroad to fill that role. That's the immediate challenge we have in front of us, which is why we're raising it with you right now.

There's the long-term talent development piece as well, which is about making sure that we continue to produce the graduates to fill the junior positions who then will get the training from the guys we bring in, gain the expertise over time, and then become the professionals in the organization.

The input that I have from our member companies is that they don't have challenges in recruiting at the junior levels; recruiting people to do QA or as testers is definitely not a challenge. Certainly there are opportunities for us to help address some of the youth unemployment issues with respect to entry-level jobs in our industry, but that isn't what the industry is facing as a challenge right now.

[Peter Miller]

Let me broaden that a little bit. There are lots of small companies, there's a lot of entrepreneurship, and there are lots of kids who do things that you and I never would have done. They go out and they start something. They start companies because they can't find traditional jobs.

Your basic question is whether, by supporting this sector, we support youth and their ability to find ultimately well-paid, high-level jobs. Absolutely we do.

What's great about the ecosystem is that it feeds off itself. You get little companies founded by entrepreneurial Canadians, which can be bought by the big guys, and whether they succeed or fail, people learn and can grow in the sector. It's a huge factor.

[Maureen Parker]

We absolutely understand the need for training in universities and schools. We have many programs in film and television as well. But we do get to a point, as a company, where we can approach, for example, our senior writers. They don't need training. They don't need universities. They maybe need a workshop. In terms of looking for government support and tax credits and such, the film and television industry gets those credits, but it employs an entire field of Canadian creators and below-the-line crew.

That's all predicated on employing Canadians in good jobs. These are the good jobs. We certainly are prepared to train for those good jobs. That doesn't require a university degree. We could do a workshop.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

You mentioned the next step. What's happening now is the emergence of the digital distribution of games, and not only to mobile devices. It is how they're distributed. That's really how you market and how you get your product out there.

Is the next step you're going to face as an industry the distribution of the good product you're making as you compete with other countries internationally to get those products out there digitally?

[Jayson Hilchie]

Definitely the challenge in the industry right now is the change in the industry from distribution of physical product to distribution through digital downloads. The industry definitely is shifting in that respect.

It is a challenge, but it also opens up opportunities, opens up new markets, opens up new customers. Also, in some senses, it is a more efficient, lower cost way of distributing a product.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I represent a rural riding. Don't you think this is going to level the playing field a bit? If you had a company producing something in a remote place and actually distributing a hard product, their costs would be high because of the gasoline costs and the transportation costs, but if you distribute it digitally, you can distribute all around the world. It doesn't matter if you're in Tatamagouche, Nova Scotia, where I come from, or in downtown Toronto or New York City.

Doesn't it level the playing field if there's a lot of emphasis on and a lot of support put toward the digital distribution of product?

[Jayson Hilchie]

What it has done is create a renaissance—I think my colleague Mr. Kee used that term—in the independent development community in this industry. It has levelled the playing field so that smaller companies are able to make games and distribute them and get those games into the hands of customers. In the past, they would not have been able to do that, because they didn't have the capital to box the games or ship the games or deal with the logistics around that.

Absolutely, it has done that for companies.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

When you look at the places that are really successful right now, such as Montreal, Halifax, Ontario, and B.C., it's typically the more urban areas that have been the hubs for this industry. What you're telling me is there's an opportunity now with the change in distribution patterns for your whole industry to actually see some of this explosive economic activity happen in the more rural areas.

From the other things you've said, one of the drawbacks is that you need that creative community around you to produce this. For the most part, that exists in urban areas. For the industry to really flourish outside the major urban centres, we're going to have to support this creative community in the rural areas as well. Would you agree with that?

[Jayson Hilchie]

Yes. May I speak to that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Sorry, but I'm trying to stick to seven minutes a round. I wasn't paying attention to the clock. Maybe someone else will pick it up later.

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to thank you for being here. You all seem very enthusiastic about coming to talk about your businesses, and that is great. We rarely have such spontaneous discussions. We are interested in this field, but it is an environment that we know little about, like most people. You are happy to talk about it, and that is so much the better.

Coming from the recording industry, I find it very strange to see that the situation of the recording industry is completely the reverse. For once, the major players are more established in Montreal, whereas there are more independents in Toronto, which is very strange.

Would that explain the difference in immigration needs? Mr. Kee talked about immigration problems, but I believe this need is greater in Quebec, since there are more large companies that need specialists for major launches.

Do you know whether immigration issues fall under Quebec's jurisdiction or federal jurisdiction?

[Stéphane D'Astous]

I can answer your question. As you know, for a work permit to be issued, we have to obtain the consent of both orders of government. We have the most difficulty shortening delays at the federal level.

Do the large companies necessarily recruit more outside Canada? I believe so. I believe we can make that correlation. I have four projects under way, and they are all at least $30-million productions. Those projects involve very specific technical specialties for which we have to find experts to help us do what we want to do.

One should not generalize, but I believe the vast majority of international recruitment is being done for large projects requiring a lot of expertise.

[Jason Kee]

To supplement that, I agree entirely. I think the problem has become particularly acute in Quebec because Quebec has a greater concentration of the larger companies than any other jurisdiction. I can assure you that our member companies that operate in Ontario and B.C. suffer from the same issues. It just isn't quite as acute as it is in Quebec because there just aren't as many of them.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

We are talking about manpower training. I understand perfectly well that, in the case of an individual who has designed a very specific item that we want to integrate into a game, that expertise cannot simply be made up. Even if that person is prepared to come and work, the fact nevertheless remains that manpower training is important. As residents of our country and of our provinces, we have an interest in having our people work.

You also have an interest in hiring people from here. It would cost you a lot less to hire someone from here than to bring in somebody from Sri Lanka. For you, is manpower training a field where you could dialogue more specifically with the people responsible in order to come up with a tailor-made solution? The Toronto people talk a lot about Sheridan College and Centennial College, which seem to have met a certain need. Are there similar institutions in Quebec?

As the lady from ACTRA said earlier... No, it was not ACTRA, but rather Publishers... What was it again?

[A voice]

Writers Guild.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you. The acronym I don't remember, but the wonderful lady from the Writers Guild.

That person said she could potentially organize seminars with her staff who were already trained to write for television.