Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 6th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We'll get started. I want to welcome our witnesses to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage for our study on the Canadian entertainment software industry.

We have two panels today. The first panel will run from 3:30 p.m. to 4:45 p.m. In the first panel, from the Canadian Interactive Alliance, we have Mr. Kelso, chief executive officer; from bitHeads, we have Mr. Simpson, chief executive officer; from Humber College, we have Mr. Acosta, dean of the school of media studies and information technology; and from the Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists, we have Stephen Waddell, national executive director, and Simon Peacock, performer.

Also with us, by way of video conference from beautiful Vancouver, British Columbia, we have Victor Lucas, executive producer, creator, and host of The Electric Playground.

Welcome to all of you. We're having an interesting study on Canadian entertainment software, and we're glad that you can be a part of it. We'll begin with five to seven minutes of opening remarks, and when you've all finished your opening remarks, we will have an opportunity for questions and answers until 4:45 p.m.

We will start with the Canadian Interactive Alliance and Mr. Ian Kelso. The floor is yours.

[Ian Kelso, Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Interactive Alliance]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Greetings, and thank you very much for having me here to address this in committee.

I know you've heard from a number of intervenors over the last couple of weeks. There are some very common themes that have emerged, but I want to start off by just setting up two thoughts for you.

One, you've heard that Canada has a very successful video game industry. You've heard we're positioned as number three as the advocate for the video game industry in Canada. I like to say that we're not actually number three in the world; we have the most successful video game industry in the world.

We have half the number of people working in our industry who work in the U.S. We have 16,000 working in the video game industry versus 32,000 in the U.S. That's five times more per capita. We have something that is without precedent in this country in terms of a cultural industry, and I think we have the world's most successful video game industry.

The second thought I want to leave you with is let's not blow it. Let's not stop and think that we're really great. We've got a lot more to do. We have to use this position to continue to grow the industry, as the industry itself is in a constant state of transformation and flux.

I'll tell you a little bit about the Canadian Interactive Alliance quickly. We are the voice of seven regional trade organizations across Canada, two of which you've heard from already: Interactive Ontario and the Alliance numérique. We also have memberships in Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Prince Edward Island. Those are all of the legally incorporated trade organizations across Canada in interactive digital media. Our members span from very large firms down to one- and two-person shops, although the vast majority of the members, which equal over 1,000 in those combined memberships across the country, are very small companies.

We do a profile of the industry called the “Canadian Interactive Industry Profile”. We've done a couple to date. The last one was in 2008. We are just about to embark on a process of serving the industry right now thanks to the Department of Canadian Heritage, which is one of the co-sponsors of that study. The figures I'm using are from 2008. At that time, the interactive media industry writ large consisted of 3,200 companies and employed over 50,000 Canadians.

The games industry portion of that is only about 10% of those companies, a little over 300 companies. It represents 30% of these jobs. The gross revenue of the entire interactive digital media industry is about $4 billion per year. As you've probably heard, the video game industry itself contributes $2 billion, so 50% of the revenue from interactive digital media actually comes from video games. It's a very critical part of the interactive digital media industry.

What are video games? I think video games are very much changing right now. They're very different than they were five years ago. Before, we talked mostly about a packaged good, something you bought in a store. Now, most video games are largely digital. Before, it was very much a blockbuster-driven enterprise. Now, video games are very much about niches. The tools of production before were very expensive, but now there are many tools that are very inexpensive and accessible. Before, the audience was mainly male, about 18 to 35 or 25 to 45. Now, it's everybody, of course. Before, games were nerdy, but now nerdy is cool.

Are there a few game players around the table?

One of the biggest revolutions that's happening right now is the smart revolution, which started with the smartphone. It's hard to believe that the iPhone is now only five and a half years old—June 29, 2007. Now, there are 491 million being sold per year. In Canada, that constitutes 45.3% of all of the mobile phone subscribers who now have a smartphone. Even more outstanding to me right now, reading from this device, is that this was just introduced two and a half years ago. It has become pretty much ubiquitous.

IDC, one of the world's largest marketing intelligence firms, predicts there will be 117 million tablet devices sold in 2012; 165 million sold in 2013; and by 2016, up to 260 million being sold per year. This device has now become a very critical device for video games. If you have kids, as I do, you know if there's an iPhone or an iPad around you don't get to touch it very much.

The industry itself is exploding, because these new devices are accessible. The distribution of these devices is global and is accessible. It's caused the industry, mostly very small companies, to expand at an incredibly rapid rate.

I think the change from the old way of looking at cultural industries to this new way is really interesting. We used to make policies to protect and to defend ourselves and to make sure Canadian voices were heard. Now we are actually in a situation where other countries.... For example, I was in the U.K. this spring to appear before the Westminster Media Forum, which is sort of a parliamentary summit for different industry leaders of media to address the video game industry. The U.K. is very concerned about the amount of talent they're losing to Canada. In fact, they just introduced a tax measure for the first time. They haven't quite figured out what it's going to be yet.

We're not really used to being in a situation where other countries are concerned about the brain drain to Canada. I think what's happening here is something I call the Hollywood effect. Hollywood started because it was a haven from the big companies in New York, companies that wanted to maybe escape paying some patent fees. Talent started to migrate there. As the talent arrived and found a haven for making content, the money soon followed. The talent followed the money and the money followed the talent, and there was a “virtuous” cycle of talent and money. And as we know, Hollywood is now the go-to place. If you want opportunity, then Hollywood is the world capital for making content in the film industry.

That's kind of happening in Canada right now, in places like Montreal and Vancouver, and now starting in Toronto. You go around the world and you hear people ask, “Where do you want to go to make games?” It's Canada.

So what do we need? I think we need to sustain our leadership position by ensuring we can get the talent here. As we get the best and the brightest from the world who want to move here, let's make sure we can get them here. Hollywood does not discriminate between those who are from the U.S. and those who are not. Companies will not bring in talent gratuitously. It's a very expensive proposition. I think we should remember that every senior person who is brought here is a job enabler, and they create jobs for more Canadians.

We did a study in the spring called New Directions for the Financing of Interactive Digital Media in Canada, which I'd like to draw your attention to. That study showed that there was clearly a lack of early-stage capital in this country. That's one thing we do lack as compared to our neighbours to the south. That is critical, because big companies tend to spin off talent in the form of people who want to start their own enterprises. People have great ideas, but if the capital is not there on the ground to help to grow those companies, they will go elsewhere. The climate for early-stage capital in the U.S. is very different than it is here in Canada. It's much more accessible. The money is much cheaper.

I think we need to focus on finding tools for that seed round of funding to get companies off the ground. The CMF has been a great thing and has been a major step forward in the right direction. We need to keep refining that to make sure that the capital being provided, which is still on a project basis, is patient enough and friendly enough to follow on investment so that the capital invested through that fund does not limit companies in their ability to find a second or third round of funding.

Right now there's some insecurity around whether that money has to be repaid immediately, whether an investor will see that as an exit, and whether that will enable a round of funding.

In conclusion, I'd say that as a country, we have something really fantastic happening here. If we were American, what we might ask at this time is what we should do with this opportunity. I think we would take advantage of this and double down and really try to make sure that we become forever dominant in this space so that when people all around the world think of video games, they think of us first, here in Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Kelso.

Next we'll go to Mr. Simpson.

[Scott Simpson, Chief Executive Officer, bitHeads Inc.]

Hello.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for making the mistake of inviting someone like me to this committee. I will do my best to provide you with information, but soon you will realize that was a terrible mistake on your part.

I have no prepared remarks, so the good news is I'll get you back on schedule. I'll pick up on a couple of things that Ian said.

Good work, Ian. That's an “Ian” five to seven minutes. That was very good.

Things like the CMF are very good to provide some necessary funding for projects that we do. I have two businesses. One is a tech business that's been around for about 17 years, which actually takes advantage of a lot of federal programs, such as SR and ED and IRAP, and that's great. We also have a spin-out games company that's been around for maybe five years, and we find it much more difficult to actually qualify for different programs based on the structure of the business or the projects that we're actually doing. Even though they are primarily provincially focused, in terms of the funding aids that have been there, we've always tried to take the tack that you shouldn't be entitled to money; the money is there to help you succeed, but it should not be the be-all and end-all. You should not be operating a business if all you need is government incentives to actually make a profitable business. I think that's very important to remember.

One of the things that I think we lose a little bit when we talk about things.... And by the way, I really would like to preface all of this by saying, don't take away funding programs; they're all very good. But I think you need to build a sane business based on what that is. What we find is that through different programs, as great as they are, there are different downsides, I'll call them, to what's there.

Most of my friends in the entertainment industry are outside of Canada. A lot of them are in the U.K. Ian was just talking about how they are clamouring now to rebuild their industry. We took over the number three spot of a video game provider, and the U.K. fell down to number six or seven or something. What we find is that Canada is actually very good at putting out the message about how much they help developers, which they do, but the unfortunate side effect of that is that then people expect you to be cheaper, or they expect you to be able to do things a lot more advantageously than they can do there.

That's actually somewhat problematic. It's not your fault; it's my fault, or it's my developer's fault because they're not working hard enough, or something. They actually say, okay, fine, if it costs $1 million to build a game...they know we're going to get $400,000 back, we're going to get 40% of that back somehow, through SR and ED, or through one of the OMDC programs, or through IRAP, or whatever, so they expect it to really cost $600,000. Then all of a sudden they only want us to charge $600,000. That means I can't even claim my $1 million. There's this weird rabbit hole whereby knowing that we are beneficiaries of good programs means that they're expecting our cost sheet to be very different. The fact of the matter is it's not. A developer in Toronto costs about the same as a developer in London, England. The cost of living is actually a lot higher in London than it is here, but the fact is that in Toronto we have great programs that keep the standard of living high. Developers like to make good money, and that's all very good.

That's very beneficial for the developers who are working, but it's this weird idea or perception that because we've been very successful in doing what we're doing, the world knows about it, which is fine—that's good, it's the way it's supposed to be, and it's a good attractor for talent into the country, which is great, but it's one of those things that makes it difficult to actually operate a profitable business, especially when you consider that gap financing or the ability to actually get from, hey, I'm paying a guy, so today I paid somebody $1 to do a job—I actually think I pay them a little bit more than $1 today. That dollar, when I get my incentive from the government, through SR and ED or IRAP or the OMDC, or whatever, can take anywhere from 18 months to 46 or 50 months to actually return to me. I have to actually finance that money for the time it's gone, and that's very difficult, especially considering a lot of the chartered banks are very reticent to loan me money against something, especially on the provincial side. The federal is actually very good, so it's good work to you guys. But it's a little bit difficult to actually set up something where I can even borrow to put up for something that I'm actually going to receive from the government later.

Anyway, I don't want to bog down too much on that, other than to say, yes, as Ian said, tweaks in things like the CMF are probably important, but the programs themselves are very sound. The biggest problem the CMF has for a company like mine is that it is a very project-focused business, and yet the application deadlines are in August and September. That means that if I have a publisher who wants to do a game starting then, that's great, but if I come up with a good idea in May, I'm kind of out of luck.

Further, I might apply to the CMF in September or October, but I'm probably not going to hear if I'm successful until December or January, so it's very difficult to actually go through. Unlike a program like SR and ED or IRAP, which is a very immediate and timely thing, things like the CMF, which are great, are specific to one kind of project that happens at a certain time of year with a certain kind of publisher.

What I'm trying to say is that the programs are great. We shouldn't be relying on them to have successful businesses. But the idea that we're in some weirdo saturnalian bacchanal making all sorts of money hand over fist and just pissing it away by paying people too much is not true. We have very real financial concerns we have to work through, especially in the banking system. We look at our incentive programs as more of a defensive mechanism against low times of work or whatever. They're defensive armour that we like to strap on to get through tough times while we wait for projects to gestate and come around.

I probably didn't make any sense there, but I'll answer all your questions later. Once again, it's your fault for inviting me here. I had nothing to do with anything.

Anyway, I thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simpson.

Mr. Acosta.

[Guillermo Acosta, Dean, School of Media Studies and Information Technology, Humber College]

I thank you for the invitation to participate in this session.

What I can offer the committee is an overview of the programs we have that address the needs of the Canadian software entertainment industry, and also some anecdotal information coming from our advisory committees and the faculty who work with us at the college.

I will start with the programs we have. We have four different programs that address the needs of the industry.

We have a two-year diploma in multi-media design and development and a three-year advanced diploma in web design and interactive media. The difference between these two programs is that the latter is focused on the development of mobile applications for android, iOS, or BlackBerry tablets and smartphones.

We also have a three-year advanced diploma in game programming, and the focus of this program is programming. It's not a program for artists; it's a program for developing coders.

We have a three-year advanced diploma in 3D animation. This is a program for art. This is a program where the graduates will develop the assets that the game programmers will require. We're talking about characters; we're talking about environments and animation, all those kinds of things.

We also have been approved just recently—last month—for a one-year foundation of art program that will give the opportunity to students who don't have a portfolio to gain entrance into the more advanced programs that require a portfolio.

We are waiting for approval of a bachelor of fine arts program. We have heard from our advisory committees. They've requested to have people with a higher level of education. It's not only skills-based, but it's also that we have a foundation or strong knowledge in fine arts, and then we develop this program. It is a combination of skills-based study and a strong background in fine arts, which I think is a really interesting proposition for the market.

As you can see, we have developed different pathways to form professionals who can be successful in the Canadian software entertainment industry.

In terms of growth, the number of applications for this cluster of programs has doubled from 2007 to 2012. As an example, game programming was a program that started in 2007 with only one section. It quickly grew to two sections, and we're planning a third section of students for 2013.

The focus of the program is a moving target, as technologies shift quickly. It makes it a challenging cluster of programs to manage, in several aspects. First, we have to keep the curriculum up to date, and second, we have to keep the facilities and the faculty up to date as well in terms of meeting industry standards for professionals who are going to be working in the industry.

Another aspect of this is the applied research. Humber, as a degree-granting institution, is investing resources in doing applied research with industry partners, which I think can lead to really interesting developments in the areas of graphical user interface or usability and interactive media in general.

Last week we hosted a delegation from the Shenzhen Polytechnic university in China. They are interested in doing joint programs in applied research and courses, which I think opens up a number of really interesting opportunities for our students to develop skills that will be really valuable in the market.

When it comes to employment, I would say that 70% to 85% of our graduates find employment within 6 to 12 months after graduation in a related field, which is really good. The more fragmented nature of the industry in the GTA, with a large number of smaller developers, is a good fit for the programs we have. The situation is different in Montreal, where you have bigger players. The larger players want to hire people with a number of years of experience, which a recent graduate won't have.

Even though we've been successful lately in placing some of our most talented graduates in companies like Ubisoft or Gameloft, there are always opportunities to continue strengthening the links with our industry partners. There are initiatives like Gamercamp, or Digifest, or the Great Canadian Appathon, where students can really showcase their skills. It's a good meeting place for industry and graduates to understand the needs of the one and the capabilities and skills of the others.

There are also opportunities to develop more applied research. As I said before, there are game labs, usability labs, and international collaboration projects, but all these have a cost. These programs are costly and expensive to run, but I believe that if you want to continue with Canada in a leadership position in this sector, we need to continue investing more in these areas.

Another challenge we face is the speed of the industry. For example, we started planning our BFA in animation in mid-2011. We submitted the proposal to the ministry by the end of 2011. We're still waiting for approval. By the end of the process, we won't be able to offer this program, I don't think, until fall 2014, with the first graduates coming to the market in fall 2018. We're talking about six years from starting to plan to having the first graduate hit the market. In six years, the technology landscape will probably be very different from what it is today.

There are a number of opportunities and challenges. I think it's a very exciting place to be. Humber continues to invest in the programs and in the professional development of faculty to keep up with the pace of the industry.

That's what I can offer. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you.

Next, from the Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists, Stephen Waddell and Simon Peacock, the floor is yours.

[Stephen Waddell, National Executive Director, Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the committee for inviting Simon and me today.

I'm Steve Waddell. I'm the executive director of ACTRA. With me today is Simon Peacock, who is a prominent voice director and performer who lives in Montreal and works extensively on video games.

It's an honour to be here as the voice of 22,000 professional performers, members of ACTRA, whose work entertains, educates, and informs audiences in Canada and around the world. We're here to talk to you today about the role our members play in the video game industry, its growing significance, and how we think the federal government could support and nurture this sector here in Canada.

ACTRA members provide the voices for characters in a large variety of games, from simple apps that you carry around with you on your phone to award-winning, international bestselling console games like Assassin's Creed and Prince of Persia, produced in Montreal by Ubisoft, and Deus Ex by Eidos.

Not only are our members providing voicing for these multi-million dollar games, but they're also appearing on camera in games through the use of performance- or motion-capture technology and cyber scanning.

You might have some idea of what performance-capture technology looks like: actors moving around a sound stage, dressed in full body stockings with small sensors built into their clothing to help sophisticated computers track their movements. More and more of our members are finding they can make a living out of this type of work, not only in video games, but also in television and in movies like Avatar, directed by a Canadian, James Cameron, who made extensive use of this technology in his film, which broke box-office records.

ACTRA has strong relationships with many of these game companies, most notably Ubisoft. We're committed to working with the game industry to establish industry standard collective agreements, which bring stability and certainty to the engagement of voice and on-camera performers in game production.

I will now ask Simon to speak about the reality of working in games.

[Simon Peacock, Performer, Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists]

Thanks, Stephen.

Thank you all for having me here today for this opportunity to talk to you.

Over the past few years, work opportunities for Canadian performers in video games have grown tremendously. As Steve mentioned, we've been lending our voices to video game characters ever since Ubisoft opened its Montreal studios in 1997. Recently we've also been providing our performances on camera through performance-capture technology and our likenesses through 3-D scans.

As more and more game companies have come to Canada to set up shop, and performers have become more experienced, the number of work opportunities available to actors has exploded. That said, new opportunities also bring new challenges, and with this industry's unparalleled growth, we foresee some potential bumps in the road that the federal government can help us address.

I've worked with all the big game companies in Montreal. They all want to work with professional performers because they realize that we save them money. We deliver high-calibre performances and we understand how the business works. But these companies need more from us. They need a larger pool of professional talent skilled in the specialized requirements of video game performances. It's a different set of skills.

It's not good enough to be good at performing character voices, as you would for an animated TV show, for example. Video games operate on a whole other level. For example, motion capture demands that performers be able to work in an entirely imaginary environment. We have no costumes, no sets, and no props. Voice actors have to perform for hours, screaming and yelling without destroying their voices, often while wearing a head-mounted camera, light, and microphone. And all video game recording is done at a pace that film and television production would find unimaginable.

These kinds of working conditions require a very specialized skill set in actors, one that can take years to acquire. To respond to this need, ACTRA offers video-game-specific training and workshops for members so that they can provide the very skills for which these same companies are searching. However, more needs to be done. Theatre programs at our colleges and universities should start offering relevant training to their students, training that provides the kind of sturdy foundation that will be useful in the real world. Likewise, governments should help provide access to mid-career training for performers to teach them the skills the industry is seeking. Training more performers in this genre of production will provide the gaming industry with the depth and variety they're searching for in their drive to develop, flourish, and compete globally.

This committee has asked what measures the federal government might take to further promote growth, innovation, and commercial success in this competitive 21st century industry. I believe the government should provide support through training and education. We are already working closely with provincial governments to help develop training programs for students and working performers. In Ontario, for example, there is a partnership with the Screen Industries Research and Training Centre.

The federal government has helped Canada's film and television industry to develop through its support of the Canada Media Fund, Telefilm Canada, and federal tax credits. We think similar measures can also stimulate this country's video game industry. Provincial tax credits have been extremely effective in helping build the gaming industry across Canada, including having centres of excellence in British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec. The tax credit is based on the corporation's expenses in producing a qualifying interactive product.

We strongly support measures that not only allow video game companies to flourish in Canada but that also help to create a robust and accomplished domestic talent pool. The tax credit encourages companies to hire and develop Canadian talent rather than bring in temporary workers from outside the country or go elsewhere to record, as many already do.

It's not enough to simply support the companies and the production of video games. The initiatives this committee recommends should pair production incentives with the need to develop a skilled workforce that can do the specialized work that needs doing, and we can keep the work here in Canada.

[Stephen Waddell]

Simon has talked about how we can grow and develop that talent pool and the very unique skills required. We'd welcome the opportunity to work with the government to create any training program that would develop these abilities among Canadian performers. If we don't, these jobs and this work might go elsewhere. We can't afford to let it slip away.

Our members, Canada's professional performers, are already doing much of this work, and we're looking forward to doing more. We're building our expertise and becoming a workforce on which the game industry relies, but we need to keep up with the demand as it continues to grow.

Let me finish by saying that we're very excited about the opportunities that exist for our members in video game production. It's good, hard, rewarding work. The video game industry would benefit from federal support for game production, tax credits, education, and training. We want to keep the jobs here in Canada. That includes jobs for the developers, the writers, and the performers.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you to you both.

Finally, waiting patiently in British Columbia, we have Victor Lucas, executive producer, creator, and host of The Electric Playground.

The floor is yours, Victor.

[Victor Lucas, Executive Producer, Creator, Host, The Electric Playground]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, committee members and my esteemed panel. This is a real honour to be invited to communicate with all of you. I guess I also have the honour of representing the west coast, which is kind of cool.

I do host a television show that I created a long time ago. We went on the air in 1997. Our show, The Electric Playground, started as a weekly half hour about the video game industry. We were one of the first TV shows in the world to make it its mission to travel to video game studios all over the world, find out exactly who was making all these cool video games, and dive into their process.

It was incredible right out of the gate. It was a real honour to be invited to so many studios all over the place, but what I found during the course of production is that more and more of my work and my travel led me to studios in Canada. I became prouder and prouder of our country's contributions to the interactive entertainment sector.

We established a certain level of quality with our program, and we were able to keep our distribution growing. In 2008 we went daily. We are now the first Canadian television show that's focused on entertainment magazine-type content that's been distributed in broadcast syndication in the U.S. So I'm very proud of our company's growth, but it all started with our passion and our desire to really get into the video game industry.

One of the other things that has transpired through our connection or relationship with all the video game companies across this country is that I'm the co-founder of the Canadian Videogame Awards, and we're about to go into our fourth year. That is a great privilege. I wanted to be involved with the Canadian Videogame Awards purely to give back to this community and purely to honour the artists who make all these incredible video game products that I love to play.

In large part, I'm representing the fan voice, because I don't make video games; I cover them, and I talk to people who make them.

I want to one-up what Mr. Kelso said, because now we also cover movies, television shows, comic books, and all kinds of other media in the content we create. We talk to all kinds of really cool and prolific creators out there. I think video games are the most important medium and the most important and coolest art form that humankind has created. I think Canada not only is the best in the world at making video games, but the video games Canada produces as a cultural export are more important than any other media we create, more important than our music, our film, or our television product.

I think as part of this heritage committee, as part of talking about where we're going in the future with our observance of the importance of video games in our culture, we need to educate and recognize that a little more. As a society in this country, I think we need to be proud of the developers, the work they create, and the people they reach with this work.

Games like Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Need for Speed, and dozens of others reach millions of people, not just in our country but all over the world. What has become apparent to me is that people in our own country are a little unaware of the great depth, the great quality of work that's coming out of this country. I think when we have prominent events like Canada Day celebrations, or Walk of Fame-type celebrations, it's time to start including video games.

Obviously I have a desire to have the Canadian Videogame Awards grow in prominence and be recognized across the country in as wide a way as we possibly can. Certainly I'd like our programming to grow and be seen by more people as well. But I think it's really significant that we have reached this level of influence across the world with this art form. I think we need to recognize it as an art form. I think we not only have to encourage other companies from different countries to invest in our country, but I think we have to work with all the incredible talent all of these larger companies or mid-size companies have created with their on-the-job training. Let's encourage all those individuals who want to start their own firms to do that. Work with private investors. Try to shy away a little from the interprovincial competition that's happening right now. A lot of provincial tax breaks and credits are going on.

People are fighting for a little bit of attention. The entire country is something akin to what Hollywood's movie output was recognized for, as Mr. Kelso so elegantly said. I think we need to recognize that our entire country can create fantastic video games, and it doesn't matter what city you live in. I think developers should focus on where they want to live and live there, make the games they want to create, and send them out into the world. It doesn't matter if they are in a small town in Saskatchewan or in the Maritimes or in B.C. or Ontario. I think we have to get away from the fighting. We should think of ourselves as something like Hollywood, but across our entire country.

We make the best video games in the world, this year in particular, with Assassin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, Sound Shapes, Little Big Planet Karting, and Sleeping Dogs. The list is unbelievable. The world-class product that we are producing is something that every Canadian should be proud of.

That's all I have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Lucas.

We will now move to our question and answer period. We're going to be pretty strict with the time because we're getting tight with time.

We'll start with Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and my thanks to everyone for being here today. We appreciate your giving us some of your valuable time.

Mr. Peacock, you direct and do voice-overs, parts, on videos.

[Simon Peacock]

Yes, I do.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Do you have to compete against synthetic voices for work, or is the industry moving toward actors pretty well all the time?

[Simon Peacock]

It's pretty much all actors at this stage. Synthetic voices play a role during the early development of some games. Some companies will use them as “place holders” while they're doing the programming so they can see how things work together without the expense of bringing in the actors. As far as the final product is concerned, I would say 99.9% of the time it is real actors. If you hear something that sounds synthesized, usually it is made with a human voice first and has then gone through some sort of processing.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

How many actors do this kind of work in video games? Any idea of how many in Canada?

[Simon Peacock]

Almost 300 from November of last year to November of this year.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

When you do a part, is it a one-time thing? If they do a second or third version of Assassin's Creed, will they bring you back?

[Simon Peacock]

Yes, they will. It depends on the projects.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

You can get more work from one part.

[Simon Peacock]

It is very seldom that you will come in and only do one role. Usually, you will do two or three. They will separate them throughout the game. With a game like Assassin's Creed, you have 40 or 50 hours of playing, so if they space the characters out properly and there's 10 hours in between, no one is going to recognize that there are some voices doubling up.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

If the games hit a certain level of sales, will the actors get residuals like they do for TV?

[Simon Peacock]

No, we aren't affected by sales.