Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 11th, 2012

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

That's an apt word. It is always worrisome, in either language, but we will check. I suggest we consult Ms. Finley on this.

To conclude, I can tell you that people in the industry know what they want. They don't want to bring in people to give master classes; they come to work. But there's a "master class" effect on the people who will do the work behind them. The issue is quite exceptional, but we also need to follow the rules. I hope that we will be able to adjust to the needs of the industry, as you said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

Next, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

I'm interested in the A-LMO, the labour market opinion that is provided and that you've now accelerated since the spring. There is the opportunity for the company to convert this temporary worker into permanent status—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That's if it's a skilled temporary worker.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Oh, okay. If it's a skilled temporary worker, then they can do that.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That's after 12 months.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Sorry?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It's after 12 months.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

They have to serve their 12 months and then they have to go through that process. That certainly isn't ideal for them, but is it easier for people from certain countries as opposed to others, or does it really matter at that point, because they're here?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, because the processing is done in Canada.

The way it works is that a temporary foreign worker comes in on what we call a high-skilled national occupational category, which would be typically certified skilled trades and up through the professions. These people, if they work for 12 months, can then apply online for the Canadian Experience Class, and that is processed here at our Ottawa office. The processing times are longer than I'd like them to be. I think for new applications they're now under 12 months.

By the way, we extend their work permits while that's being processed, so they can maintain their temporary status.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

All right. That's good.

The basis of this is temporary foreign workers, unless there is a Canadian available to do the job. Do you fear that would give an unfair advantage to them, as opposed to other ordinary Canadians? The original job that they filled was of a temporary nature, or maybe it's something that someone living in Canada already has at another place. Do you understand the scenario?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, I think so.

In principle, in hiring the person for the job in the first place, the employer had to demonstrate that no qualified Canadians applied. As I think you've heard from people in this industry, these are very specialized skills, and there just aren't Canadians out there with those skills.

By the way, I have to say I've always been mystified by something, and I've used this as an example around the country, talking about labour shortages. I can't believe, with all these young guys who spend all their time playing video games, that we haven't got an entire army of young Canadian adolescents just lining up for these jobs. I don't understand that.

However, it is a shortage, and they've demonstrated there is an acute shortage. If persons come in on their temporary basis.... We have an immigration program to deal with the broader challenge of an aging society and a shrinking workforce. Our data tell us that immigrants who are landed as permanent residents with a pre-arranged job make twice as much income as those who come without a pre-arranged job, so we're all about lining up the immigrants who get permanent residency with jobs that are available, because they are set for success, as opposed to taking someone in from abroad, as we used to do, and dropping them into the general labour market to sink or swim. Many of them ended up underemployed.

Therefore, I'm quite happy if some young French guy ends up taking that job in Montreal that Canadians are not qualified for. He is making $100,000 a year. He gets permanent residence and he's paying a lot of taxes and filling a labour shortage. That's how immigration should work.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I know, but what I'm saying is that if everybody comes in under the premise of.... First of all, you get the labour market opinion, and that person comes in on a temporary basis. They convert that to full-time employment, and there might be somewhat of an advantage there. I know you just—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

They're full time anyway. It's not about full time versus part time. You're permanent—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I know that, but there is a time period that is there.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I should point out that once they get permanent residency, they have full mobility within the labour market. They're not tied to that employer. They can pull out and they can become a ski bum in Whistler if they want to.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I'll switch topics very quickly. I have only a few minutes left.

A couple of comments came in from some of the witnesses we have had from Ubisoft Entertainment. I'll put this out there and get your opinion on it. The witness said that the issue of processing times at the embassies should be noted; for some countries a visa is required to come to Canada, but we're talking about a wait of two to four months. It could even take up to six months.

That was from Ubisoft. How do you address that?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm sorry. I've been distracted by a radio over here.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Yes, someone is gaming.

[Sharon Chomyn, Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I'll take that question.

It's a reality that in certain locations and certain visa offices there are longer delays—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'm sorry; can we break for just a second? Can I stop my time, as it were?

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Sharon Chomyn]

Thank you.

I was just in the process of saying that you're absolutely correct that there are some locations where there are longer waits than others. With regard to the offices that process applicants within the occupational categories that I think the committee is most interested in, the majority of them are processed in our office in New Delhi. For those individuals, the average processing time is 22 days. The second-largest group is processed in Paris, and the processing time there is approximately 40 days. It's true that there are other locations—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Sorry.

Am I correct that it's 40 days in Paris and 22 days in New Delhi, and this is for the gaming industry?

[Sharon Chomyn]

Yes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay.

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to interrupt.

The other thing that was said came from a group called TeamSpace. They came in and said they could bring in immigrants to meet the demand, but that over the past few years changes made to guidelines governing temporary foreign workers in the field of information technology had slowed down the process for obtaining a work permit to a point that they felt was unacceptable.