Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 11th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much, Mr. Norlock. We're all very relaxed now.

We'll move along to Mr. Hillyer, for seven minutes.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

You've addressed why hunting and fishing are important, how they're important to conservation and how they are a major part of our heritage. The bill doesn't change any laws pertaining to hunting and fishing; there are no added regulations or limitations or expanded freedoms.

What's the point of a national day? How does it affect public attitudes, and by extension, could it influence legislators in the future?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

You know, there's an old saying: keep it simple, stupid—referring to me, of course.

As I said, these occupations are traditions in this country. So it's our heritage. As I previously said, it's up to us to build on this. This is not designed to just be, as one of our members of Parliament told me, a hot dog day—as in everybody wants a day for everything.

If you just think about it—and by looking at your facial expressions, I think most of you do get it—this is about the very nature of our country. This is about why we are, about who we are. It is those occupations—hunting, fishing, and trapping—that actually are the Canadian reality today. It's up to us. I'm hoping this is the beginning, that it stimulates conversation, stimulates us as legislators. Because it has happened provincially. Most of the regulatory regimes around these occupations are provincially mandated. I think what I, as a federal legislator, have done is recognize that importance. Provincial legislatures have already done so. I believe now we have four provinces—and it could be going on to five—that have a similar day.

We can encourage new Canadians. This is about the changing face of Canada, and having new Canadians also become part of that great Canadian story of western Europeans. Now we have people from all around the world who are Canadian. I look around this room. Most of us in this room don't represent the reality of Canada. Canada is changing. The people who come to our country are here because of those traditions that are of value to Canadians—hunting, fishing, and trapping; enjoying the outdoors.

We have such a huge country. Again, as I tell high school students, the population of Canada and the gross domestic product of Canada, the second-largest country in the world land-wise, is equal to the state of California. We've lots of room to grow, but we have lots of opportunities to protect our wildlife and to make sure it's there for new Canadians, as well as our children and our grandchildren. This heritage day is designed to wake us up to that reality and allow legislators like you and me to do something more about it. I don't want this to die. I don't want this to be just a day that's buried in some parliamentary...where the only people who remember it are the people in this room who dealt with it as part of our careers as politicians. It's up to us to do something about it.

I'm doing my part. I belong to organizations that are conservation-minded. As I said in debate at second reading, hunting, fishing, and trapping are embedded in my family's DNA. I have first nations in my blood. I'm so proud of that. I represent a true Canadian family. My mom's French Canadian; my dad is fourth-generation Polish Canadian. We're enjoying those things.

We all have a part to play in this. This is just the beginning, Jim, of what I think we can do. Or we can simply say it's a nice day to celebrate our heritage, and forget about it. But it's up to you and me to do something more. If you ask me what more can we do, I'm going to suggest what more can you do, what more can we all do to make sure that those things we have of value...? This is a family occupation to me; this is important to me personally. That's why I chose this. I said, how can I do something that will unite? Everything about this place is politically driven. We all know that. But how can I unite us all into one thing that means something to each of us, that crosses party lines, crosses racial lines, religious lines?

It just makes a lot of common sense, doesn't it?

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Do I have any more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

You have about two minutes.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I want to ask the question in a different way. I think you've addressed well how this can increase people's awareness and understanding of the importance of hunting and fishing, and get people more involved in hunting and fishing, including new Canadians. I come from a pretty rural riding, and even among the people who live in the big city of 85,000 people there are a lot of hunters and fishers. But Canada is more urban. I grew up in a small town where almost everyone hunted and fished, but I didn't. I don't have the patience for fishing. What about those who probably will never hunt, probably will never fish? How can this still be important to them? What I think about is how important hockey is to this country. There are a lot of people who don't play hockey, yet Hockey Day in Canada isn't a national day but it's still a day in the minds of a lot of people. It's still a big deal for people who don't play hockey and don't even watch hockey. How can this day be important to those who will never hunt or fish?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I won't necessarily talk about the day, but let's deal with the occupation. You don't want to hunt and fish? Then go up and see Mr. Hyer or someone like him who does ecotourism. Why do people want to go on ecotourism? To look at spruce trees and pine trees? Partly, but they want to see that wild deer run by. They want to see the various species of birds. They want to see that majestic moose sitting in the water as they paddle their canoe by. They don't want to shoot or hunt or fish anything, but they want to see that animal. That animal wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the people who hunt and fish because we are the people who drive the conservation. I just read to you a report done by Mr. Gary Mauser, who used to be the vice-president of the B.C. Wildlife Federation. So don't hunt, don't fish, but go on a hike.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock.

We're going to move to Monsieur Lapointe for cinq minutes.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Norlock, I am going to take a few minutes to ask you a question about the bill that has nothing to do with its fundamentals. I want to talk about the choice of the third Saturday in September.

I have checked hunting season schedules. For moose, hunting season in a number of regions in Quebec starts on September 7, September 13, and so on. For white-tailed deer, the season starts a little later. Here is the advantage I see. The date coincides almost exactly with the week when people are starting their hunting season or are making their final preparations for it. But you suggested earlier that federal members of Parliament could take the initiative of getting their hunting and fishing clubs together on that date. Personally, I can tell you that, if hunters are getting ready to go hunting, they are not going to come to their MP’s office to take part in a special event. That week will be the last thing on their minds.

Let me try this idea on you. Could we consider putting the week earlier in the season, at the beginning of September perhaps? I will ask the question and you are perfectly free to give me all the arguments that led you to choose this particular date. If the week were set earlier in the season, those in my constituency who are most interested, the hunters, could join me in a regional campaign because they would not yet be deep in the Appalachians enjoying their hunting season.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I thought of this. I've gone hunting mountain caribou and sheep as well as mountain goat, in British Columbia. Their hunting season starts in August, so you have between August—and you can deer hunt in most provinces, at least Ontario and Quebec—right through until just before Christmas, roughly. So there really isn't a perfect time, but early fall, which is mid-September, to me, was a good time.

The driver here was strictly to try to align it with the United States. I'm just going to read to you a little bit.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

If I'm not mistaken, it's aligned, but not exactly—

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Not exactly, because in the United States it's September 26.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So what brings you to that decision?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I didn't want this to be a floating date that could interfere with, perhaps, the pink ribbon...or the Terry Fox Run, or something else like that. I tried to be the least intrusive possible, yet align it with something I love to do, which is hunt deer. Deer season in Ontario and Quebec generally is the first and second week of November. Yes, you can moose hunt, but in the northern regions you moose hunt earlier. If you go down to the area where I used to work, in Hearst, Ontario, which is northern Ontario, it's usually around the first week in October.

So there was no perfect day. I had to choose some day, and quite frankly what I tried to do was align it with the United States. As I said at the beginning to one of the questioners, I tried to align it as closely as possible with the U.S. to attract those valuable tourist dollars, because the tourism industry is one of the best things, right? It doesn't cause pollution, etc., and it helps build a whole bunch of other stuff.

For instance, last weekend in Las Vegas the Safari Club International held a huge international show, so all the outfitters from around the world were going there Wouldn't it be good if we could align with our American confreres and attract more American hunters and fishers up here?

That was my basic reasoning, as flawed as it is. It's based on a hunting season as big as we have across our country.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do I still have a minute or two?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

You have 30 seconds.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you again.

You talked about the explosion of white-tailed deer, and I can tell you there are lots of white-tailed deer where I live. I wondered if part of that was also due to the extinction of predators. Are the groups you work with working at all toward bringing back some of those desirable predators, such as wolves, and the animals that would keep the populations from becoming excessive?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

If you talk to people where I live, basically southeastern Ontario, not too far from the 401.... Right here in the city of Ottawa you have had moose, deer, coyotes, foxes running along Highway 417, the Queensway. These animals are becoming more and more accustomed to man, as are moose.

Michigan, for instance, traded us some turkeys. I think you're aware of the reintroduction of wolves there, the timber wolves, the bigger wolves. Coyotes will take down a small deer. I think what you'll find, and what my solution to this is.... Yes, we need to have that natural balance, but what we can also do is increase the bag limit on animals, provided we do so with good science and good conservation. I think the witnesses coming up will talk about good science and good conservation.

There is a balance, you're right. But I think what's happening is what Mother Nature intended. We are a species. We are a very highly evolved species, but animals are becoming accustomed to our houses and our traffic, etc. We're going to have to use science and good conservation to figure out ways that we can adapt to their adaptation to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock.

We have about 30 seconds left, and Mr. Falk would like to get one question in, and then that will be it.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I won't go into a huge preamble. I'd like to build a little bit on Mr. Dion's question.

Mr. Norlock, thank you very much for your bill. I do think it's very important, and I could speak a lot in favour of the bill, but I would like to know how you envision celebration of this day. It's a descriptive act; it's not prescriptive. How do you envision celebrations happening?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Again, I go back to what I said before. I've begun to do my part in bringing this to the attention of Canada and to the federal legislators of Canada. Again, that's up to you and me. It's up to you and me through our communication skills that we have with our constituents to let them know about this bill, to talk about the heritage, and to begin to have celebrations celebrating our heritage.

We celebrate Canada Day, which is totally appropriate, and we celebrate a lot of other days that mean something to our heritage, so I thought we should have a day not only for people who are engaged in those traditions of hunting, fishing, and trapping, but also to encourage others to take up those activities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much, Mr. Norlock.

We're going to briefly suspend so we can bring in our panel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

I will call the meeting back to order.

Welcome to our witnesses.

First, we have with us Jim Brennan, director, government affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada. Second, we have Greg Farrant, manager, government affairs and policy, the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters. From the Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs, we have with us Pierre Latraverse, president.

You have five minutes each. We will start with Mr. Brennan.

[Jim Brennan, Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to join you here today and for the opportunity to share some thoughts on behalf of Ducks Unlimited Canada about the significance of Canada's hunting, trapping, and fishing traditions.

When people think about Canada, images of vast landscapes and diverse wildlife often come to mind. We're extremely fortunate and also very proud to have some of the most incredible natural areas in the world. Encouraging people to respect, enjoy, and use these resources responsibly is a cornerstone of Ducks Unlimited Canada's conservation mission. That's because people who have a strong connection to nature and the outdoors also have a strong conservation ethic.

Hunting, trapping, and fishing are a means by which Canadians can experience first-hand the multitude and diversity of valuable natural areas that, as a whole, make up the vast geography of our country. The hunting, fishing, and trapping pursuits they support have a tremendous historical significance and are thus worthy of our respect and celebration, as is proposed in Bill C-501. These activities are part of Canada's cultural fabric. They sustained indigenous peoples for centuries and laid the foundations for this nation. And while there is no disputing their significance from an historical and a natural heritage perspective, these activities remain a very real and relevant part of our environmental and social well-being.

Ducks Unlimited Canada was established 75 years ago by a group of passionate conservation-minded waterfowl hunters who were determined to find solutions to protect and restore vital wetland habitats at a time when waterfowl populations were being devastated in the 1930s. Though the many benefits of wetland conservation have attracted a diversity of supporters for our work today, waterfowl hunters remain among our most passionate and dedicated supporters and are among our most active volunteers.

In recent years, the number of waterfowl hunters in Canada has declined; however, we're starting to witness a new-found interest and appreciation for harvesting your own food that is leading new audiences to take up hunting. Recent media reports are now covering society's growing interest in organic food. Canadians' affinity for eating local products is prompting non-hunters to find out what it's like to take a trip afield rather than a trip to the supermarket.

Trends are showing that more of the younger, environmentally motivated urbanites, as well as women, are now discovering outdoor heritage activities for the first time. In turn, they are becoming more aware of the need for conservation, while personally benefiting from the social and spiritual aspects of connecting with the outdoors. Canadians who participate in hunting, fishing, and trapping contribute to a conservation legacy of which we can be very proud. In addition, these people are contributing millions of dollars to the national economy and supporting thousands of jobs through these pursuits.

As outlined in Bill C-501, by designating every third Saturday in September as national hunting, trapping, and fishing day, we can celebrate the important role these pursuits play in our past, present, and future. We can continue the traditions of our predecessors and carry forward their ideals about conservation and the environment.

In the province of Ontario in particular, this annual event will likely coincide with Environment Canada's annual youth waterfowling heritage day, and we can think of no better way to recognize hunting, fishing, and trapping than by taking a new young hunter out to the duck blind to experience the thrill of waterfowl hunting for the first time.

For some, learning to hunt may be an intimidating undertaking. Regulations, licensing, equipment, locations, and how-to can all add up to a sense of frustration and confusion. Ducks Unlimited Canada attempts to alleviate this sense of uncertainty through our mentored hunt program. Here, youth and new adult hunters are educated about hunting, and then mentored on actual duck and goose hunts with experienced hunters.

A national hunting, trapping and fishing heritage day would go a long way in supporting our efforts to make these activities more accessible and familiar to all Canadians. Ducks Unlimited Canada is proud to support the parliamentary outdoor caucus and, more recently, to serve on the government's hunting and angling advisory panel. We're committed to working with all levels of government to conserve, manage, and restore our natural areas such as wetlands, while encouraging Canadians to take an active role as well.

Bill C-501 is an important way to honour our past by introducing someone new to hunting, fishing, or trapping. These people are our future conservationists. Engaging them in the outdoors is important to ensure a bright future for all Canadians.

Thank you for your time today. I would be happy to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much. That was right on the money. It was five minutes exactly.

We'll move to Mr. Latraverse, for five minutes.