Evidence of meeting #18 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Tanner, Mr. O'Connor, Mr. Craig and Madam Tarlton, I don't want you to repeat your diagnostic, but I would like each of you to identify the one or two, or maximum three, very concrete measures that we could include in our report as recommendations for the government.
Maybe you could start, Mr. Tanner.
Director of Operations, North by Northeast (NXNE)
I would like to recommend that in a report the government undertake a study working with the industry to explore key elements of the industry, the existing stakeholders with a view to identifying needs and opportunities for collaboration, for creating programs which speak to those needs, and for delivering those programs in a way that is relevant and appropriate, and frankly, easy without a lot of barriers for those who need it most to access it.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Do you have any idea today of what programs you might have in mind?
Director of Operations, North by Northeast (NXNE)
I don't but I could sit down with you after and draw up a little worksheet.
Chairman, Live Nation Canada
I think there are three elements. I'd echo what Mike was just saying. I'd like to see that as Music Canada...the live presenters in this country are just starting to be vocal and get together and collaborate and wave the flag of what we really believe is a major story on the economic scene of Canada. I think some collaborative effort between having that dialogue at a government level and with the Music Canada organization would be a big plus.
The second thing is I'm a great believer in our infrastructure on our facilities in Canada. They are our cathedrals of the live music scene and they shouldn't be ignored. I know infrastructure is a big issue when it comes to federal money spending, but it's something that I think should be looked at. They shouldn't be left to deteriorate and be an eyesore in any community.
Liberal
Chairman, Live Nation Canada
I'm referring to performing arts centres of arenas because those are the major places that drive the economic standard.
The other thing is education. It's one way of changing how everybody thinks about music and knowing the importance of what it really means. Canadians are inherently already pioneers in these areas.
Chief Operating Officer, Ticketmaster Canada
I would suggest that we take the example of the film industry and there was a momentum decades ago to call that a priority sector. If we could have multiple levels of government agree that the benefits of live music are so important to the fabric that we would declare them a priority that way the other elements that we are advocating for become easier conversations to have because there's a wall that has been broken down so we can have a dialogue.
I do believe a lot of this is among multiple layers of government and also ministries. For example when we talk about making it easier for a musician, that's about getting a work visa to come to Canada. When we talk about a cultural tourist who is coming from an international market, it may take them two or three months to get a visitor's permit to come. If we could make access to music for those that want to either play in Canada or enjoy it in Canada that would be light years ahead of where we feel like we are today.
Liberal
Chief Operating Officer, Ticketmaster Canada
We feel that we have had success, but if we were to focus on it in a strategic way, that success could show returns at five times or ten times what we have today.
You'll hear us say as private enterprise that we're doing pretty well, but imagine how well we could do if we actually had a complete frictionless environment and we really promoted the concept that music is in the fabric of us as Canada.
Chief Operating Officer, Ticketmaster Canada
It does start with education and goes from there.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Mr. O'Connor, you mentioned your idea to have a national touring strategy. Can you expand a bit on what you have in mind?
Chairman, Live Nation Canada
It's kind of broad based. I've been sort of mulling this over for a while. I'd like to see some recognition of Canadian acts that tour Canada. It's very expensive for these acts. For a lot of the acts, their only real income is the Canadian live music scene, and really what they should be doing when they tour Canada is not spending all their money on touring but figuring out how they can build up their capital assets so that they can go out and perform abroad and go to a larger market.
I think it's through education. There are plenty of entrepreneurial type places in Canada that are trying to teach musicians the entrepreneurial skill set to be able to figure out what they need financially to succeed in Canada. I also think, in terms of maybe tax incentives for those acts that do tour a large broad base of cities in Canada, that they should get some sort of incentive for going out on the road, not paying the freight like everybody else. I think it would be encouraging.
There was a time, for example, in Ontario when Canadian musicians were given tax benefits on their live performances. That has been taken away since the restructuring of the HST. It would be encouraging to see some form of touring strategy on that basis. I think it also echoes where they like to play, the performing arts centres. If there is a way to encourage the technology of these places, I think you'd attract international artists to come here and do recordings, films, and things like this. Then we'd become a mecca to attract people on an international scale.
That's kind of where I'm going on that touring strategy idea.
Conservative
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, panel, for presenting here this afternoon. I appreciate that.
By vocation, I'm in the gravel and aggregate business. What I need is a resource. I need to source that resource. I need to secure it. I need to protect it. I need to develop it. You guys are in business. Your resource is the artist and musician. One of the things we've been hearing through the course of our study is that your resource says there's no money. How would you respond to that?
Director of Operations, North by Northeast (NXNE)
I can take a stab at that.
When we are negotiating, putting on a festival, putting together the lineup and all of that, we're flowing the money that we get through ticketing revenue—Patti has spoken to that—through corporate partnerships, and through government support directly to the artists. The artists are being paid for playing our shows. They're additionally getting concomitant benefits for being on our stages in a large forum, a large venue.
We speak to the artists. We speak to them all the time very directly. The more gigs there are, the more shows there are, the easier it is to plan a tour around that. You can't come out from B.C. to Toronto for one show. You have to put together a network. You can't come up from the United States and play just one gig and go back to the United States. Animating an entire ecosystem across the country is very important for the elevation of any one component and for the artists who play there. In addition, as we've all said, it animates so many other things in the industry as well.
Chairman, Live Nation Canada
I wasn't really clear on the question. Were you saying there was no money for artists?
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
That's one of the themes that has been recurring here throughout the study, that they say there's not a whole lot. We've heard from some artists who have number one songs on the charts and are living in their mother-in-law's basement with their four kids, just because the revenue isn't there in the industry to provide a decent living.
Chairman, Live Nation Canada
I'd like to sort of split where that discrepancy could be, because on the live side, if you're going out and performing, you're being paid. There's no artist who works with me who isn't being paid; I can guarantee you that. That may be somebody who writes the music and isn't going out and performing that music. They may be just on the publishing side, and there are probably issues there.
There is money there. The artists who are going through any of our organizations, playing at festivals or playing on a touring circuit across Canada, and that's from clubs to stadiums, are all being paid. What you need to do is broaden that network and encourage more of it instead of just picking and choosing based on the cost.
There is a pie out there, and I think you ought to separate the artist who is strictly writing music as opposed to going out and playing live. There are two different worlds.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Mr. Dion asked you some very pointed questions about recommendations, and you provided some. I appreciate that and I thank you.
The other question I would have for all of you is about we as a government providing an accelerant to the industry. Are we providing it at the right time and at the right place, in your opinion?
