Canadian Heritage Committee on May 6th, 2014

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I want to thank you all very much for coming here today to help us better understand the issues.

I would also like to stress how much I would like you to exchange business cards. Andrew Mosker is doing exceptional work. His museum and his collection of instruments is extraordinary. I think that one of the most promising aspects is

the residence program that you've got for artists. I hope it's going to develop into something where people are able to see artists in residence working in your environment. I think it's truly promising and I wish you all the best in collecting the funds that still have to be collected.

I want to thank Mr. Jenkins and Mrs. Kapusta particularly. I know that your coming here was complicated last week, so thank you for hanging on and bringing in this very important mosaic aspect of music and various issues you are facing.

You did touch base on the CBC issue, and I would like to give notice of motion that we are asking:

That the Committee invite the Honourable Shelly Glover, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages and the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Hubert T. Lacroix, for a two (2) hour televised meeting on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC )and that this meeting take place no later than Thursday, June 12, 2014.

I think you were referring to this as an important crisis, a meltdown of the capacity of our public broadcaster, and I think it plays a key role in all these little artists that you guys are talking about. On this I will leave the parole to Mrs. Mathyssen, my colleague.

Thank you very much.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for your expertise. I have so many questions, and I'm not sure if I can articulate all the things I'd like to ask.

I will start with “The Next Big Bang”. I've been looking through it, and it's an incredible tome. I'm wondering to what degree you would agree with the recommendations in this particular document. You seem to have referenced them: music education, digital innovation, tourism, export expansion, and interconnected tax credits.

Should we as a committee use as this report as a map, a guiding principle? What recommendations would you have in terms of the government looking at this and following it?

[Andrew Mosker]

I would agree that the National Music Centre certainly supports that report, particularly two key elements of the recommendations, music education being the first. Everything we do is about music education, but it's very broad. It's not in the traditional sense. We're not a music school but we provide baseline music education for everybody else who doesn't necessarily go to music school. In other words we infuse the provincial curriculum, at least in Alberta and ultimately across Canada over time, with musical anecdotes in every core curriculum subject so that music becomes part of the base language.That's how we have approached it.

That's not to say we don't support traditional music education; we amplify it. In other words, if someone goes to Mount Royal University or the Glenn Gould School or U of T or McGill—pick another school—and they are touring or if they are an independent artist who's on the road touring, we have a venue that presents them. That's across the musical spectrum: hip hop, classical, country; we present all music.

So we definitely support the music education component of that report.

The second key element would be music tourism. We think that's an important incubator for any jurisdiction in Canada to develop clusters, for tourism purposes, around music. There's no question that the consumption of music is not depleting, it's increasing. There's great evidence in that report that suggests that greater clusters of music activity can enhance tourism in any given jurisdiction.

One that's on the fringes and is kind of recommended in that report but is not is one that I focused on a lot, which is celebration. Again, it's an adjunct to education but telling the stories of the great artists who have come from this country and why they are great is part of the inspirational element of the educational framework.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I appreciate that because I was wondering about the vehicle that you would use in this education. What you have described in Alberta, infusing in the broader curricula, I think is very interesting.

Ms. Jenkins, you referenced the CBC and the cuts. We know that the cuts go back to 1996, $400 million, and these cuts have continued and this illusion that somehow we can tell our story—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

On a point of order, the allegations about cuts are not founded, and I don't think they play a role. If we want to get into a debate of whether there have been increases to this portion of Heritage in terms of the allocations of funding on a yearly basis we can, but I think it makes sense to stick to the topic at hand.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Well, thank you.

I believe I have the floor, Mr. Chair, and I would like to ask my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

I will not deduct that from your time. You're back on.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dykstra.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

At any rate, I'd like to continue. We've seen an undermining of the CBC in terms of layoffs and inability to provide the kind of structures that we would like. I was very interested in what you had to say because I am absolutely certain that the CBC plays a significant role, but there are those who would say there are public broadcasters. Why the CBC, as opposed to the public broadcasters, why do we need to make sure that this entity is there?

[Tracy Jenkins]

Speaking specifically from our experience trying to promote and support world music artists from diverse cultures, we've received tremendous support from our local CBC, CBC Toronto, but as changes in the CBC have meant the cutback of some programs, we felt that effect. When Canada Live would frequently come to the club and record emerging musicians from India, Cuba, wherever, and then broadcast them nationally, that was a very important way of reaching new audiences, and we miss that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I understand what you're saying because in London, Ontario, we have Sunfest, and it's magnificent and the CBC records it and broadcast it. The funding that is provided is used locally to sponsor seminars and support local artists. So I do understand absolutely what you're saying.

And if I have time, Mr. Chair, I did want to ask, I think it was Mr. Terrence.

You were talking about hubs. Perhaps it was Mr. Mosker. I wonder, could you describe the hub? Is it something akin to what they have in Austin, Texas?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Just a quick answer, please.

[Andrew Mosker]

Yes.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Andrew Mosker]

I got cut off once, so I have to be careful.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, that was very quick. Well, you don't want to get in trouble with this bunch. They push back. I can understand.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

All right. Thank you very much.

Mr. Dion, vous avez sept minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to each of the witnesses for joining us.

This committee received a lot of advice about the Canada Music Fund, the CMF, and some of your predecessors said don't touch it. So we would like to hear your views because, Mr. Terrence, you say that we need to make big changes to it, and in addition to it, we need to have an additional fund.

[Gregg Terrence]

We are not necessarily saying additional money.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Not additional money.

[Gregg Terrence]

We are not saying additional money, and we are not saying that—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

So two funds with the same money?

[Gregg Terrence]

Instead of assigning all of the money to FACTOR, with their specialty being in shining apples, we believe that some of those funds should be assigned to a new organization that specializes in and has an understanding regionally and so on about independent artists and entrepreneurs, yes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

A new funding organization but from the same fund.

[Gregg Terrence]

From the same CMF, yes. Correct.

It would be nice if there was more money, of course. We think that it would certainly create fewer waves if there was more money; however, there needs to be a transition there. There needs to be a proper division of funds in order to fund the ecosystem. If we're starving the seeds or the saplings or the trees at any point along the process, it hurts our long-term export interests.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Mosker, what do you propose for the CMF?