Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 25th, 2014

[Graham Flack]

It may be worthwhile for you to meet with Simon. I think he is very well known in the art world. When I talked to him about his vision of the council, he said that the international aspect was an integral part of it.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Okay.

[Graham Flack]

With the success of our artists, he thinks part of the council's resources should be set aside for those events and international exhibitions in order to help the artists compete on the international stage.

I would like to point out—and I think you know this—that it cannot be said that there is no support for artists on the international level. That support is provided, but it may come through different channels. Of course, the council is one source of support. However, the Canada Music Fund has has also provided some money, especially in the area of official languages, for some of our artists' tours. For instance, the band A Tribe Called Red received support for the international leg of its tour.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I understand what you are saying.

You may have heard of this, but Quebec's publishing industry was a bit overwhelmed by the bankruptcy of Les éditions de la courte échelle. A letter was sent to the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages and the Minister of Industry to find out whether an amendment could be made to the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act in relation to the arrears owed to authors. Do you know whether any progress has been made in that file?

[Graham Flack]

If I have understood correctly, Minister Moore proposed that the legislation be reviewed in September. A review of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act was planned.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

That was in September 2014.

[Graham Flack]

I think he has already talked about his plan to review the legislation, since it is standard procedure to do that every five years anyway. As you know, I spent some time at the Department of Finance. That legislation is fairly complicated concerning the precedence that should be given to some of the parties, including government parties. My understanding was that a review was proposed. This is not the legislation that comes under Minister Glover, but I think reviews are usually carried out.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you.

I am convinced that this is a bit of good news for the publishing world. Let's hope we will be able to hold a long debate on this, and that it will not be part of a time allocation motion.

I have another question about the Maison de Radio-Canada. We can say that the project involving the privatization, resale and new residential development in the Radio-Canada tower is a bit nebulous. We receive bits of information, but clarity is lacking.

Is it true that, under the Broadcasting Act, the CBC shall not, without the approval of the Governor in Council, enter into any any transaction for the acquisition of any real property or the disposition of any real or personal property for a consideration in excess of $4 million? The big tower must be worth more than that. How would you explain the vagueness in this area? Is that due to the board of directors' lack of knowledge?

[Graham Flack]

Some rules do exist. I think the Treasury Board established them. Past a certain amount, CBC/Radio-Canada no longer has the right to make this type of commercial arrangement without approval. The corporation could make such arrangements, but beyond a certain level—I think the amount is $4 million—it needs to obtain approval, and not only from CBC/Radio-Canada management.

This is among the elements Hubert raised when I arrived. As you know, part of CBC/Radio-Canada's vision is to reduce the number of buildings it is occupying. That is one of the elements the corporation asked us to review. Is it possible to review this so as to provide the organization with more flexibility? We are currently conducting the review and will make our recommendations to the minister.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Could we count on your participation if the committee agreed to carry out a study on this specific topic?

[Graham Flack]

I am always available to help the committee.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you very much.

This same committee carried out a study on the music industry. We looked into transferring the responsibility for the Music Entrepreneur Component to another entity. Has any headway been made in that area?

[Graham Flack]

As you saw in the response the minister issued regarding your study, that approach was not part of her letter concerning another entity taking over the program. I must say that our internal analyses of the program indicate that it is working fairly well.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

We agree with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you.

Mr. Dion, go ahead for seven minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the deputy minister and his two helpers for staying with us.

A backlog of 98,000 boxes of records exists, and $15 million was spent on a digital repository that was never used.

Were you surprised by the harsh nature of the Auditor General's findings on Library and Archives Canada?

[Graham Flack]

I am responsible for a portfolio but not Library and Archives Canada. As you know, Mr. Berthiaume is in charge, but I have discussed the issue with him.

I would like to make a comment that may help the committee as it considers the matter. First of all, with respect to the backlog the minister mentioned, Library and Archives Canada recognized that there was a problem. A plan was put in place but did not work well. The plan was reworked, and additional resources were allocated to implement the new approach. It seems that progress is now being made.

Second of all, it would be worthwhile to discuss the matter of the records digitization with Mr. Berthiaume. The matter is more complicated because Library and Archives Canada made the decision to abandon that approach, and I think the decision was partly motivated by the fact that the new government department, Shared Services Canada, had been established in the interim.

Shared Services Canada gave every department the opportunity to use the same software. Prior to that, the people at Library and Archives Canada thought that they were going to have to develop their own system and link it to the systems of all the other departments. So the decision they made was due to the change in circumstances. My understanding is that Mr. Berthiaume believes that the option available through Shared Services Canada, in other words, using the same government-wide software, could produce better results more quickly.

The cost stems from the fact that investments had already been made. Again, I am far from being an expert when it comes to this subject or the details. Mr. Berthiaume is the expert, but I just wanted to tell the committee what I have learned in the course of our meetings.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Of course, you cannot micromanage an independent organization. But the fact remains that Canadians will likely find the situation troubling. It gives rise to the question of whether the Department of Canadian Heritage, which is cutting $9 million in this area alone, was aware of the facts at play. And if not, the department is making blind cuts.

I hope that your department and Library and Archives Canada will do a lot more communicating so that the progress can be measured over the next few months. I think the committee would be very glad to have you back to discuss the matter and find out whether this very troubling situation at Library and Archives Canada has been rectified.

Now I would like to come back to CBC. The Crown corporation has reached an all-time record. Never has it been so dependent on self-generated revenues, mainly commercial revenues. The minister says it isn't sufficient.

Have you told the minister how other Crown corporation public broadcasters in the world are funded?

Are any of them as reliant on commercial revenues as CBC?

[Graham Flack]

I don't have the figures with me to do an international comparison right now. There is, however, one difference that should be taken into account when it comes to CBC's revenues: the fact that the Canada Media Fund did not exist up until a certain point. It provides a source of revenue that is not allocated to the government. The fund, which is an external source, did not used to exist. That is one of the reasons why a comparison—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I am aware of that, but the comparison is still a valid one.

I had a look at the commercial revenues, and never have they been equivalent to 45% of the votes. That, too, is an all-time record.

The minister lays the blame on CBC, saying all it has to do is raise more money. Is the Department of Canadian Heritage concerned that an excessive reliance on commercial revenues by the public broadcaster could jeopardize its ability to fulfill its mandate?

[Graham Flack]

The facts do show that CBC's revenues were indeed a bit higher before the recession. After the recession, its commercial revenues dropped, as would be normal in any recession. Then they came back up.

Last year was special in that the revenues generated by the Olympic games were taken into account, and those revenues were very high.

I can't say anything more on the subject.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Very well.

I believe that a public broadcaster should not rely too heavily on commercial revenues because it could jeopardize its ability to fulfill its mandate. But that doesn't seem to concern the minister or the government. As I see it, that is something that should concern all Canadians.

Now I would like to turn to the 150th anniversary celebrations. I was encouraging the department to refer to the milestone as the 150th anniversary of Confederation. All those who know that the country's history goes back more than 150 years may feel that the value of that history is being diminished, to make reference to a similar situation that's been in the news recently.

On May 15, the minister had this to say on the subject, and I quote: "the plan for the 150th anniversary has not yet been established".

It will soon be 2015. Is there a plan to mark the 150th anniversary of Confederation?

[Graham Flack]

As you said, 2017 is an important year, but Canada's history did not begin in 1867.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

We agree there.

[Graham Flack]

A plan has been established to commemorate all the events right up until 2017. We are already seeing the results. For instance, the events to mark the Charlottetown Conference and the Québec Conference are included in the estimates. The $11 million being requested covers all the events leading up to 2017. It is also important to keep in mind the need to commemorate all kinds of events that happened before Confederation.

As far as 2017 is concerned, the government has not announced a plan for that year specifically.