Canadian Heritage Committee on April 1st, 2015

[Van Hoang Nguyen, Member, Toronto Section, Canada-Vietnam Friendship Association]

Hello, everyone.

My name is Hoang. I represent a younger generation of Vietnamese in Toronto and also a part of Canada.

I'm here today to make only one point, which is the date of this bill.

When I came to the Hill today, I came across an article in Embassy news that came out this morning, April 1. I'm going to quote a sentence written in this article about Bill S-219, and the quote comes from the Conservative member, Mark Adler. The quote says, “This is a historical fact that we’re talking about here..”. He went on to say that “the historical fact is there was an invasion. There were two separate countries in 1975, and there was an invasion.”

As I said, I was born after the war, and, of course, I didn't witness the war. For me, the history comes from history books. I was taught by some of the well-known professors here, for example, Professor Gabriel Kolko, from York University in Canada, who has written a book about the Vietnamese war called Anatomy of a War. It's about the Vietnamese war, from 1940 to 1975.

I'm going to read one sentence that I learned from this book: “South Vietnam is a geographic expression only for the sake of convenience” because legally Vietnam, south of the 17th parallel, under the Geneva Accords of 1954, was an integral part of one nation, transitionally divided prior to reunification.

They key word here is “reunification”, ladies and gentlemen. April 30, 1975 is the day that reunited Vietnam. April 30, 1975 is not the day that commemorates refugees from Vietnam coming to Canada. That is one thing I want to make clear. This is what I learned from university, from textbooks. my point today is very clear: The day to commemorate the Vietnamese refugees in Canada should be July 27, 1979. April 30 is the day that reunited Vietnam, my country.

Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you.

We'll now move over to Mr. Dao.

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao, President, Montreal Region, Communauté Vietnamienne au Canada]

Honourable Members, Chair of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, allow me to introduce myself. I am Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao, and I have been the president of the Vietnamese community in Canada for the greater Montreal area for four years. I was the president of the association of Vietnamese physicians of Canada from 2005 to 2009.

It is a great honour for me to represent the approximately 30,000 members of the Vietnamese community in Canada in the greater Montreal area—there are 42,500 in Quebec—and to speak to Bill S-219.

We will never forget the participation of the Canadian Forces in the International Commission of Control and Supervision of the armistice and the 1973 Paris Peace Accords. Despite the armistice, South Vietnam was invaded by communist troops from the north. The war ended on April 30, 1975, and from that day onward, the increased terror, repression and atrocities carried out by the new regime against the South Vietnamese led to many more refugees.

We will never forget the words broadcast on the BBC or the VOA, sometime around 1980–1983, of a 75- to 80-year-old Vietnamese man: “If these electric rods and sticks could walk they too would flee the country.”

I invite you to listen to the story of a prisoner of war who witnessed the situation from 1975 to 1985.

Before April 30, 1975, this man was a medical officer in the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. We can all agree that the role of the doctor is to alleviate human suffering, no matter the politics, location, time or the patient's race. It is a noble and fine profession.

With the takeover by the communist regime, he had to report to brainwashing concentration camps like so many other soldiers, officers and government workers. Almost all southerners were found guilty, and many were considered to have blood debts to public. Doctors were especially guilty because they healed and relieved the suffering of members of the People’s Army. The doctor in this story made a very big mistake. He saved the lives of members of the People’s Army, who were very moved, quit the army and sought political asylum in the south.

In the concentration camps, he performed forced labour: planting food crops, cutting down trees for wood to be sold for frames, writing self-critical texts, and attending lectures steeped with revenge and jealousy. Camp changes were frequent. After two and a half years in the brainwashing camps, he was released, but continued to be closely watched by managers, police and local authorities.

He was forced to work in a hospital for sick children under the control of poorly educated, non-professional administrative staff or go to the new economic zones, which were deserted regions with little or no resources. He had to stay with friends. At the slightest suspicions, the local authorities would often knock down doors at night to take people away to undisclosed locations.

Faced with this dangerous situation, he had no choice. He had to leave the country at any cost. He tried to seek freedom and flee with his wife and his 10-year-old and 11-month-old sons as boat people. He tried 13 times but never succeeded.

Finally, through some dealings involving the black market for gold bullion, his family caught a plane in March 1985, and fulfilled a promise that his brother-in-law, a student in New Brunswick and Montreal, made in February 1975.

He is but one—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Dr. Dao, I'm going to have to stop you for one moment.

The bells are ringing now. If a member of the committee was prepared to ask for unanimous consent to continue, we could do that.

Do we have consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Okay, continue.

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

Thank you.

He is but one of 840,000 individuals called “refugees”. It is estimated that during this exodus, more than 250,000 Vietnamese lost their lives at sea and roughly 100,000 in the forests at the borders, due to drowning, disease, starvation, violence and acts of piracy.

The Vietnamese diaspora designates April 30 as Black April Day or Journey to Freedom Day to commemorate the lives lost and the suffering experienced during the exodus of the Vietnamese people. This day also acknowledges the warm welcome by Canadians and the Government of Canada of the Vietnamese refugees and the gratitude of the Vietnamese people overseas for that welcome.

It was not just Canada but many others who extended this extraordinary gesture to the Vietnamese refugees: so did the United States, Australia, France, Italy, Switzerland, Sweden, and others. In 1986, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees awarded the Nansen Medal to Canada, an honour on par with the Nobel Peace Prize.

Yet how many Canadians are aware of this honour? That was the impetus for Bill S-219. We Canadians, whatever our background, are proud to be recognized by other countries, by citizens around the world through this legislation.

Now let’s continue the story of the former prisoner. After arriving in Montreal, in March 1985, the family immediately found work. The mother worked in a furniture factory, and then in a factory that made car brakes. The father studied for an equivalency exam.

In November 1985, after passing the exam, he worked at St. Luke’s Hospital as an orderly for more than three years. During that time, thanks to the generosity of the department heads, he worked in the mornings as a trainee and in the evenings as an orderly. Between 1991 and 1993, he had his rotating internship and has been a practising family doctor since 1994. He was awarded the Prix des médecins de coeur et d’action.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Merci, Dr. Dao.

We're now going to go to questions, and to Mr. Dykstra, for up to seven minutes.

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

Could I have one more minute?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Dykstra, you can ask him to continue.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Go ahead, you can finish. It's only going to be a minute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

You can finish, but you're using up Mr. Dykstra's time now.

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

I will sum up.

The Vietnamese community in Montreal has significantly contributed to the development of Canadian and Quebec society: every year it organizes a Health Day around September or October for 400 to 500 people from various ethnic backgrounds with presentations and advice on modern medical problems for and by Vietnamese health professionals; it offers English, French and Vietnamese courses, computer courses, martial arts courses, citizenship courses, meals for the homeless, courses to combat domestic violence, courses to protect seniors, fundraisers for victims of the storms and disasters in Japan, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Lac-Mégantic as well.

There are many other activities that the Vietnamese community contributes to with Canadians of Vietnamese origin.

Once enacted, the Journey to Freedom Day is a day for Canada, its people, its elected officials, and its government. This law is for the Canadian people only and their ideals of peace and freedom.

Honourable chair, honourable members of the committee, by voting for this bill, you are enhancing the values of peace, freedom and human dignity which are truly the pillars of Canada. By voting for this bill, you are helping us to finally express the gratitude of Vietnamese Canadians to their host country and recognizing their commitment and contributions to this society of theirs. You are encouraging them to defend our values and exercise our rights, including the right to vote, which, by the way, exists in name only for the Vietnamese who remained in their country.

On April 30, Canadians of Vietnamese origin will attend a grand ceremony for the unveiling of the “Tribute to Liberty” monument to commemorate the 100 million victims of communism around the world. The monument will be erected near Parliament.

Honorable chair, honourable members of the committee, we sincerely thank you for your attention. Please accept the thanks of the entire Vietnamese community in Canada in the greater Montreal area.

Lastly, let's not forget that the Journey to Freedom Day is not a legal holiday or a non-juridical day.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Dykstra, you now have about four minutes and fifteen seconds.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Every once in a while it's not bad for a politician to give up his speaking time.

Mr. Nguyen and Mr. Bang Do, one of the pieces in terms of preparing for this is that concerns, at least from my perspective and some of the same arguments that you're presenting today, were also raised during the honouring of the story of the boat people in 1995. At that time the Vietnamese embassy warned the Canadian government that there would be negative effects, similar to what has been expressed this afternoon, on trade and a bilateral relationship between the two countries. When the monument was erected at Somerset and Preston streets right here in Ottawa, it also commemorated the contribution of the Vietnamese community to the city and the Vietnamese community who fled or were expelled from their country in April 1975.

I wondered if any of you could identify any negative repercussions with respect to trade that happened between Vietnam and Canada.

[Trac Bang Do]

I think in terms of the trade with Canada it took about 40 years to be built. If we're saying bad things about the country, it doesn't just jeopardize the opportunity for the Canadian government and people to deal with the Vietnamese trade opportunity, but it also jeopardizes the friendship very much for a long time to come. We don't know how many years it will take, maybe another 40 to 50 years. That would be a very very long time.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

One of the other pieces in all of this, from my perspective, is how we, as a country, have identified several events that have happened in other countries, including, for example, the Holodomor, the Armenian genocide. These are all significant tragic events in our world history that we, as a country, were prepared to recognize. We did recognize those events in the House of Commons and by the federal government. I don't understand, or I guess I'm a little bit unsure as to why there is anything different about recognizing Canada's role in accepting all of the displaced Vietnamese who came here in 1975 and on. Commemorating that journey to freedom made by thousands of Vietnamese Canadians, based on the fact that it happened, based on the fact that this is consistent with the Canadian model of how we recognize what these incidents and these tragic events mean to the lives of so many, why is it so difficult to accept this as something we should do as a country?

[Trac Bang Do]

Today, as a witness, I am saying that I'm not opposed to the bill itself. I support the dates that should be changed. I arrived in Canada in January 1980. But April 30, 1975, is not the date a single Vietnamese came to Canada. As my partner here says, that day was the unification day. I hope that the House committee members would recognize July 27 as the day that recognizes the first Vietnamese boat people's arrival in Canada. As the person who serves the Vietnamese community at large, I think July 27 is more of an opportunity for our people to recognize and to have in the bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

All right, thank you very much.

We're now going to move to Ms. Sitsabaiesan, for up to seven minutes.

Then we're going to suspend after that.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I'm not sure if all of you were here in the first half when I was asking about clear controversy with the date. As well, you've clearly articulated, Mr. Dao, you support April 30. Mr. Do and Mr. Nguyen, you both have said that you don't support the April 30 date.

Mr. Do, you mentioned something interesting. In your mind April 30 is the reunification date, when North and South Vietnam were put together.

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

That is correct.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Clearly, there is a divide. I don't know if it's 90% of the population like one date and 10% don't, or 99% or 50% or 70%. I don't know what the percentages are, and I don't know if there's any math to support it.

Is there, in your minds, a date that is not April 30, that is not July 27, that can work?

[Trac Bang Do]

I think that there is no other date that can classify so high an expectation for us to recognize than July 27 which is the Vietnamese boat people's first arrival in Canada.

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

Rathika, I would say June 20. Where is June 20 coming from? From my understanding of the Nansen Award that was awarded to the people of Canada from the United Nations. Now it's not to Canada, but to the people of Canada, who have welcomed a lot of refugees to this country, not only Vietnamese, but people from a lot of other nations.

Now to directly answer your question of what date, what comes to my mind right now would be June 20, 1986, where Canada, as a nation—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

—received the commendation.