Evidence of meeting #39 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was date.
A video is available from Parliament.
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
I know. I've read the preamble and I've read the short bill very many times.
Senator, CPC, Senate
I agree with you 100%. I agree with you that the passion is there after you come from the war. So basically that's the date when almost two million Vietnamese left the country.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
I'm going to throw in one quick question. I'll change topics, because clearly we're going nowhere with the date business.
What happened in the Senate when you changed the name from “black April” to “journey to freedom”? What was the thinking or the process behind that?
Senator, CPC, Senate
When we talk about “black April day”, nobody understands this. A few people would know it, but “journey to freedom day” is more relevant.
Beginning in 1975 Canada started accepting refugees. The orphans arrived in Canada. On April 24 the Canadian embassy accepted refugees. On April 30 they accepted refugees. I came to Canada in 1975 on May 27. I remember that date. Canada accepted me and I don't know how many others.
Basically, that's the date after the war. We changed the name to “journey to freedom day” to reflect the amazing human rights role Canadians played in welcoming thousands and thousands and thousands. During 1979 and1980, Canada accepted 60,000 Vietnamese refugee boat people, so we think this name is better than something more negative.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Why are we counting the commemoration starting in 1975, then, instead of 1979 or 1980?
Mr. Nguyen, you said you came in 1980, I think.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
It was 1981, and you said that's when the 60,000, the vast majority of Vietnamese refugees were accepted in Canada. So why are we counting from 1975 instead of 1979 or 1980 or whenever?
Senator, CPC, Senate
In May 1975, 3,000 were accepted into Canada. In May 1975, more than 7,000 were told they were accepted, and then 450 were accepted in August. From then on, Canada started to accept 200 families each month, starting on that date, so basically that's the reason why.
Thank you, sir.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gord Brown
Thank you very much.
Mr. Dion, you have the floor for seven minutes.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I also want to thank the four witnesses.
I had hoped that this meeting would reconcile the Vietnamese community. It is a tall order, but let me try.
Ms. Nguyen, Ms. McIninch, I propose the following.
Once this bill comes into effect in Canada, the commemoration will take shape. When we come together for this commemoration in my riding, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, I can assure you that everyone will be welcome.
As a Canadian member of Parliament, I do not want to provide an official version of the history of another country. I want to do two things: first, commemorate every Vietnamese refugee, the boat people and all the others, and second, commemorate the extraordinary contribution of Canada's Vietnamese community.
With characteristic generosity, the Vietnamese community wants to add a third reason to celebrate: it wants to express its thanks to Canada. Very well, let's stop there. What is there left to discuss?
There are some things in the section of the bill that begins, “Whereas”, that you may not be so happy about, but that will be quickly forgotten. The only thing we'll remember is that we're together and that we will work together. It is not the role of Parliament to deal with disagreements over interpretations of the past. As a parliamentarian, I am not going to provide an official version of the history of another country. That is not my job.
Can we all celebrate together? That is my question.
Elizabeth McIninch Director, Montreal, Canada-Vietnam Trade Council
I very much agree that on the points you've made about honouring refugees and the contributions they've made and no doubt the senator is sincere in his efforts to do this. The unfortunate thing is that if you've read the bill from the preamble on, it is a very malevolent attack on the creation of Vietnam and the Government of Vietnam as it stands today. My position...look, I'm of Irish origin, I know all about this stuff. I know everything about flags from the old regime, marching parades, and the whole thing.
In this case look at ASEAN as a trade group; one of the biggest trading organizations in the world. Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines are all dropping. Who's rising to the ascendency in ASEAN right now? Everybody knows it's Vietnam.
It looks to me that.... Why go and poke your finger in the eye of a vital and influential trade partner who right now is the ascending power?
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
With all due respect, we are not doing that. I would not do that in supporting this bill—
Director, Montreal, Canada-Vietnam Trade Council
You're not doing that, but if you read the bill carefully—
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
No, not at all. I'm giving the opportunity every year to celebrate the contribution of the Vietnamese community to Canada.
Director, Montreal, Canada-Vietnam Trade Council
That's a different thing.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
If some people have their interpretation of the Vietnam War, or any event in the history of Vietnam, they are entitled to do so in a free country. It's not what we will commemorate at this moment. We'll commemorate the saga of the refugees and the contribution of Vietnamese to Canada.
Director, Montreal, Canada-Vietnam Trade Council
With respect, sir, the bill is all about the history of the war. That's what it's based on, winners and losers—
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Yes, I understand you might dislike the whereas, but my experience with that is that the whereases are forgotten almost always. The only thing that will remain is we'll celebrate the April 30 date. You may not like the date, but it will be April 30 anyway and we'll give the significance to this celebration in Saint-Laurent—Cartierville in my riding with my friends. We'll do it in a very consensual way in welcoming everyone.
Madam Nguyen, do you want to react?
Dr. Dai Trang H. (Julie) Nguyen
Yes. Honourable Stéphan Dion, I thank you very much for your point. I totally agree that this bill should be about two things: to commemorate the Vietnam refugees and to celebrate their contribution to the Canadian society. If we focus on these two positive things there should be no disagreement.
The disagreement comes from the fact that the bill is about the war. It's about the ending of a war that was one of the most controversial and bloodiest wars in the 20th century. When it's about war it will always create disagreement and emotion. In order to build consensus about this bill we should focus on the two points that you just mentioned. The bill is about 60,000 refugees who came in 1979 and 1980. This bill is not about those who came in 1975. In this bill we have to refocus and focus on the 60,000 refugees who were accepted to land in Canada. The first day they landed in Canada was July 27, 1979. This date is relevant.
I have no idea what's happening in Vietnam. I have no idea what July 27 means in Vietnam. I'm here, I'm a Canadian citizen, and I care about what it means for my fellow Vietnamese Canadians in the community. When they come here, they are accepted, they contribute, and this is what I celebrate with them.
I want to clarify that not all of the 300,000 Vietnamese Canadians are refugees. This bill is only about the 60,000 refugees who came in 1979 and 1980. I don't belong to that group. I came as an economic immigrant and there are many economic immigrants like myself. We need to have consensus for the whole community.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
I understand your view.
The bill will pass. Even though I'm opposing it, the bill will pass. I cannot accept having a divided society, a divided community, so I will do my best—I know I won't be alone on that, as I think all my colleagues will do their best—to be sure that the way we commemorate will include you and everyone. That's where we are now.
It's very sad, because usually when you have a commemoration for a community it's unanimous, and it's a great moment. I'm very sad that for you it will be a sad moment. I will do everything to be sure that the people who have the same feelings as you—I'm sure they exist, as they came to speak with me in my riding—will be celebrated with as brothers and sisters, as great Canadians, all together.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gord Brown
Merci, monsieur Dion.
We will now briefly suspend as we bring in our next group of panellists.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gord Brown
Good afternoon, everyone. I call meeting 39 back to order.
Today we are studying Bill S-219, an act respecting a national day of commemoration of the exodus of Vietnamese refugees and their acceptance in Canada after the fall of Saigon and the end of the Vietnam War.
On our second panel today we have Mr. Trac Do and Mr. Nguyen from the Canada–Vietnam Friendship Association. From the Communauté vietnamienne au Canada we have Mr. Dao, who's the president of the Montreal region.
Both groups will have up to eight minutes.
Mr. Do, you have the floor for up to eight minutes.
Trac Bang Do President, Toronto Section, Canada-Vietnam Friendship Association
Honourable Gordon Brown, chair of the House committee on heritage, honourable members for the House committee on heritage, ladies and gentlemen, I am delighted and excited to be called as a witness regarding Bill S-219.
My name is Do Trac Bang. My Canadian friends call me Chuck, because I have been in Canada for 35 years.
I am the president of the Canada-Vietnam Friendship Association, and the friendship ambassador for the City of Toronto in Vietnam. I tell you this to show that I have a long experience of serving the community. From 1986 to 1992, for three consecutive terms, I was the appointment in council for the Ontario government on multiculturalism.
I am here to be a witness for Bill S-219, because I think the bill expresses our support for the recognition of the Vietnamese community in Canada.
As a Vietnamese refugee who came to Canada in January 1980, I am one of the members of the Vietnamese boat people. I don't want to talk about the bill for long, but every member around the table has a letter written by me in which I express my point of view on behalf of the Vietnamese community.
I would like to make the point to the committee today, with regard to the wording of this bill, that I believe up to 90% of the Vietnamese community would support choosing July 27 to commemorate the Vietnamese boat people's first exodus to Canada. In this spirit and with due respect, I am calling on the honourable Senator Ngo Thanh Hai to adopt July 27 as the commemoration day to be proposed in Bill S-219 as this day is perfectly meaningful and realistically acceptable to our community.
I represent the older generation, those who first arrived in Canada. However, with me is Mr. Van Hoang Nguyen, who is from the younger generation, those who have also come from Vietnam but who were born after the war ended in 1975. He represents the younger generation and can express the will of the community before the members of the parliamentary committee today.
I would like to ask Mr. Van Hoang Nguyen to take the floor, please.