Evidence of meeting #42 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was films.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Nuria Bronfman  Executive Director, Movie Theatre Association of Canada
Neil Campbell  President and Chief Executive Officer, Director, Movie Theatre Association of Canada, Landmark Cinemas of Canada
Anne Fitzgerald  Director, Movie Theatre Association of Canada, and Chief Legal Officer, Cineplex Entertainment LP
Vincenzo Guzzo  Vice-president, President, Association des propriétaires de cinémas du Québec, Cinémas Guzzo
Raffaele Papalia  Chair, Ciné Entreprise, Chief Executive Officer, Movie Theatre Association of Canada
John Lewis  International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees
Jack Blum  Executive Director, Reel Canada
John Helliker  Director, Screen Industries Research and Training Centre, Sheridan College

5:15 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

I think it's a prerequisite for everyone from the industry that we have to mention the grind. I think it's an unwritten code in the industry that when we come here, we all have to mention the grind. There is a cost. All these things are costly.

Again, I do want to preface those comments. The industry is very appreciative of the support of the federal government over the years. The stability of the Canadian tax credit has been one of the reasons why we've been able to promote. It's one of the issues of concern in Ontario and Nova Scotia when they announce changes. It's not so much the amount of change but just the fact that you're changing the model. The industry needs stability as much as possible. So anytime you introduce change, it creates concerns.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

We have been told that maybe the difficulty to adjust with SR and ED, if we do that. Are you aware of this technicality?

5:15 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

Do you want to comment again on the grind?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Reel Canada

Jack Blum

I'm all for getting rid of the grind.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

Third, concerning Alberta, you have a very strong paragraph saying that with the new guidelines it is fast becoming one of the safest jurisdictions to work in. Were you suggesting it used to be the opposite?

5:15 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

Yes. I am referring to economic safety. Alberta works on a slightly different basis; they have a tax grant program and not a tax credit program. There have unfortunately been a series of productions that defaulted in Alberta. It became very problematic. That's why the Alberta government took charge of this matter and brought in these guidelines. This was just recent. We think it will go a long way.

I won't get into the intricacies, but essentially it's about piercing the corporate veil. You have these one-off companies that sometimes have dubious forms of financing. I don't mean that in a pejorative way. Producers are trying to do whatever they can. They're pre-selling their product. They're trying to get money up front as much as they can. They pre-sell the tax credits if they can so they can get the money up front.

We're saying that there has to be a process that confirms that you have the money before you start producing. That's one of the requirements—

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

Are you suggesting that federal institutions look at these guidelines?

5:15 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

I think they should. I think every province that offers this kind of a grant system should.

It's your money and you should make sure that that money's being used appropriately and with accountability.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

My last question concerns the CRTC. What do you have to say about the CRTC?

5:15 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

How much time do we have?

It's funny. These submissions were written—

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

One minute for you.

5:15 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

Stability is not what I would call what the CRTC has been doing lately.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Reel Canada

Jack Blum

Can I jump in on the CRTC?

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

Of course.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Reel Canada

Jack Blum

The thing about the CRTC is that the focus on consumer rights—if that's what we want to talk about—and consumer choice, in this case compromises our choice as citizens, which we can only make collectively, to have access to the product that we have invested with our own stories. To say that the be-all and end-all is that a particular consumer should be able to pick from among the offerings whatever he or she wants is one thing. But it really does get in the way of our collectively, as citizens, saying that we want to have our stories told and that we want access to our stories. That's not a choice I can make alone. I can only make it through you, our representatives. So that is an issue, I would say, given the appetite that we discover on the ground when showing these films to people.

5:20 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

May I just add briefly to that? It's hard to argue against consumer choice. I think that in the long term, choice and making it cheaper will have the absolute opposite effect. I think there will be less choice, fewer options, and because of that, I think what's left will be more expensive for the consumers. I think that in the long term you're going to see that this has been a terrible direction for the CRTC to have gone in, and I think you're going to see less choice and a hit to consumers in Canada for what they do chose to watch.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gord Brown

Merci.

Speaking of Alberta, we're going to go to Mr. Yurdiga for seven minutes.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the witnesses for participating in this very important study.

The first question I have is for Mr. Lewis regarding the changes in the Alberta policy regarding the film industry. Could you elaborate on the direction these new policies have taken as far as advancing the film industry in Alberta is concerned?

5:20 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

They are very recent, so we haven't seen their total impact yet, but they will bring in a sense of stability. Right now in Calgary you're seeing the building of a brand new sound stage, the first time that has happened in Alberta. It's something that's always been lacking in Alberta. Great, you want to do a western? You could film it in Alberta, but they didn't have a sound stage.

To make that kind of big commitment, the provincial government, the city government, and the industry became involved. Whites— that is, William F. White International—put private money in to build that, but you need a stable industry in order to do that. When you have these single purpose companies that come in—and this is the exception, not the norm—and don't pay their bills...people have to make that decision to invest.

What the Alberta program does is bring in some accountability in terms of whether or not you have the necessary funding to do what you're planning on doing. Before we give you the money, do you have enough money to pay your bills to do this show? I think it's just basic common sense. The nature of the industry...because these are all single purpose companies that disappear after the show is done.... With Fargo, Fargo Season 1 was from one single-purpose company. It's had a huge success in Alberta. The next show will be from a separate, different company.

Even with a series, it's year to year. With Heartland, every season is from a different corporate company. That's a great example for a production, but you can see where there's a problem if one of the shows goes down and then they're back at the trough the next day saying they have a new show with a new company. This is what the Alberta guidelines do. It's discretionary, but it allows the funding agency to take a look and to make sure that everything is as it should be in terms of there being enough funding in place before proceeding with a production.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Were these policy changes a result of a lobby group? Why did the province move from the old model to the new model? Was there a lack of film in Alberta? Was the province trying to attract more people to produce?

April 27th, 2015 / 5:20 p.m.

International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

John Lewis

The Alberta government consulted quite extensively with the Alberta industry and with the union's, guilds, producers, suppliers, and industry stakeholders. Alberta film is booming right now. The Canadian industry is booming right now. We're having a hard time supplying crew in some of our cities because of the production levels right now in Canada. It's great.

It wasn't an issue of that. The issue was there were about three shows in a row that defaulted and people started to get little bit nervous. Why? Why is it happening in Alberta? It's not happening in other jurisdictions and that was the result. That's why you see the result here.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Blum. I think I've said it right.

5:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Reel Canada

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Great. There's a misconception that Canadian films are of low quality. I know that's not true. There are a lot of great Canadian films out there that I really enjoyed. Who's responsible for changing the perception? I was reading a blog and it put down our film industry as being sub-standard.

Whose responsibility is it to change that attitude in Canada?