Canadian Heritage Committee on April 24th, 2018

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think you've seen how vast this topic is. That is why, to some degree, the government asked us to do the groundwork to determine how the $300 million that was announced in last fall's cultural policy should be invested.

I thank all the witnesses for their presentations this morning. They were all very different, but very complementary.

We take it for granted that Music Canada represents Canada's musicians. Let's say that we posit that hypothesis. There are artists who would like a spot in a community like the one Ms. Shea is trying to develop through New Dawn Enterprises. Indeed I see that as a community. I think that that enterprise could present arguments in the same way as a Nova Scotia city or region. It could potentially get together with the Akin Collective to put together a technical resource group comparable to what is done in the social housing sector. How could we build something like that to make room for Canadian musicians?

Ultimately, time passes and we wind up with a neighbourhood like the one that preceded the Quartier des spectacles. Before it was called the Quartier des spectacles, there was the Wilder Building, and the building above, opposite Sainte-Catherine Street, opposite MusiquePlus. The cultural crossroads was there, and it became professionalized. As we have been able to see in the presentations of the Quartier des spectacles team, there has been enormous success and professionalization. A creative space was created, a space where everyone can practice an instrument and rehearse. We all remember the glory years of Spectrum, or when the Société des arts technologiques, the SAT, appeared. When the lady from SAT came to meet with us, she said that SAT had settled in a former bank opposite the Spectrum space. Today, the Quartier des spectacles presents somewhat like a completed cultural hub, and it is becoming a cultural district. I am taking pains to present this synthesis, because it is our duty to clarify and do the groundwork on the issues.

What interests me here are the two ends of the equation. Either Mr. Primeau or Mr. Fortin—I don't remember which—said today that we have to make sure that we still have affordable spaces where people can practise various artistic disciplines. That is a big issue. However, if someday you have the opportunity of going to Montreal and to the Jardins Gamelin, you will see as I did that it presents much more as a cultural crossroads than a cultural district. We really see the emergence of all sorts of talents there, and the space is very appropriate for it. The La Patrie building, which is quite close to the Foufounes Électriques, also has enormous potential. It's a magnificent building, and its very name evokes all of Quebec's cultural heritage.

Gentlemen from the Quartier des spectacles Partnership, you mentioned in your recommendations that we need to adopt measures to support cultural crossroads. You also spoke about risk-sharing. I'd like you to provide some further explanations about what you meant.

[Jacques Primeau]

It's a project that began about three years ago. When we talk about co-operation between for-profit organizations and not-for-profit organizations, this a good example. We managed to gather data on all of the Quartier des spectacles venues and their operations. Over time, we were able to create a set of pooled data, thanks to a private intervention by the firm Aimia, which does philanthropic data work. They lent us about a hundred specialists to analyze the behaviour of spectators in the Quartier des spectacles, that is to say to find out at what time, where, and when they purchase their tickets, whether they are men or women, and whether they live in the suburbs or close to Montreal. Thanks to that information we have a much clearer idea of where we are going. None of these venues would have had the means to obtain that data on its own.

This gave us a second idea, which was to share risks. In fact, our purpose is to increase the quality and scope of the shows offered in the Quartier. In summary, all of the venues collect a certain amount of money in various ways and place it in a common fund. That money, either through interest-free loans or subsidies, is used to increase production budgets for those companies. In this way, the risk is shouldered by the entire community, which allows each of the venues to present more elaborate performances, hire more actors, more musicians, have more lighting, in short to offer better shows.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

My next question is for all five of you. What are the pitfalls we should avoid? If the federal government could do one thing to multiply the number of cultural hubs, what would that be? Conversely, what should we not be doing? For instance, it is obvious that we should not standardize the process throughout the country and build beautiful buildings in the shape of maple leaves. We need an approach that is adapted to the respective communities.

Ms. Terrill, should we discuss the equal opportunity of men and women to access these art rehearsal and creation spaces? What criteria should the federal government establish in order to create a sort of “cultural hub” label?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

In about a minute, please.

[Amy Terrill]

I hadn't expected the connection between gender equality and cultural hubs, but it's an issue of great importance to the cultural communities right now. I understand that you're studying that issue as well, which is really important.

I think we all have to challenge the status quo. We can take actions individually as well as more broadly as organizations or in our sector. Whether we're talking about cultural hubs, cultural associations, or our industry in general, we need to be looking at inclusion and diversity as a prime issue of importance.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

Now we will go to Monsieur Breton.

You have seven minutes.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank all of the witnesses for being here with us today. Their vast expertise is helpful to us in our study.

Mr. Chair, I want to tell you that I will be sharing my time with Ms. Dzerowicz. One of the organizations here is from her riding, and I understand very well that she would like to exchange a few words with its representatives.

For my part, I want to hear from you mostly about the impact of this on tourism. That is primarily addressed to Mr. Primeau and Mr. Fortin.

I am from a rural riding in the greater Granby area. I make a point every year of going to the Quartier des spectacles or to one of the arts centres to see a show.You have made this an extraordinary success, and it is ongoing.

Earlier you said that the construction of the Quartier des spectacles and the effervescence that created generated spinoffs of $2.2 billion in the real estate sector. Have you done any studies on the collateral financial benefits of all of the shows and of the neighbourhood itself? That is extremely important.

Personnaly, I see the Quartier des spectacles as a model. We often say back home that a dollar invested in culture generates six dollars. I don't know if you did that calculation for yourselves. Is it more, is it less? Tell me about the impact that neighbourhood has on tourism.

[Pierre Fortin]

We have done several studies on economic benefits. They are quite easy to measure, in fact. For instance, someone who comes to see a show in the Quartier des spectacles spends on average between $50 and $60 elsewhere, either in a bar or a restaurant. The culture or cultural offering thus attracts people to the downtown area.

How many new restaurants are there?

[Jacques Primeau]

There are about fifty.

[Pierre Fortin]

Those restaurants opened in the last year and none of them have closed.

We create an intense cultural experience in the downtown, and people come for the experience. In the past, people would park their car, come in to see the show and then leave. Now, something is being offered in the public space so that people stay and have a drink, for instance. All of that, of course, generates economic spinoffs.

There is also a night economy being created, like what you see in Berlin or Paris. Because of smoking bans, people go outside of buildings more often, and they speak louder at the end of the evening than in the beginning. Our work is to manage the balance between those things and see to it that it remains a space where all of the downtown activities and residents can co-exist.

[Jacques Primeau]

At the initiative of the city of Montreal, governments made a $200-million investment in public places. It was a risky investment. We promised governments that an increase in activity would generate additional revenues—because of the GST, among other things—that would allow us to reimburse them in 15 years; we did it in 7. This means that that investment was profitable for the city, the Government of Quebec and for the Government of Canada, and this is ongoing.

However, there are sometimes some unintended effects. For instance, the fact that there are 50 restaurants and that it is now very easy to go to eat outside of the festival site has caused a decline in the festivals' independent revenues. Previously, the festivals sold the food and drink. Now, they have more spectators but less independent revenue.

That is in fact the issue that concerns me the most for the next few years. Very often, we focus on the vehicle and all of the economic spinoffs and we are happy about them, but the fact is that there is less money left for the stage, the artists and the creators. Even if the situation and events grow in scope, the federal government could look into that aspect and be more concerned about the money allocated to creation and to artists.

In passing, there is something excellent that happens in your area. The Festival international de la chanson de Granby is quite a major event.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much.

I am going to give the floor to Ms. Dzerowicz.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

How much time do I have, Chair?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

You have about two minutes.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Great.

Thanks to all of you for your outstanding presentations. I've really learned a lot today.

I'm very proud to have Akin Collective in my riding and doing a lot of work there. Thank you for your presentation.

I used to book bands when I was at McGill University, so I'm a very big supporter of live music and would really like to see things like Hugh's Room and the Horseshoe stay alive and be very active. They really are the heart and soul of the live music industry in Toronto and the GTA.

For the Akin Collective, can you expand a bit more on your last recommendation about bringing organizations together, or all three levels of government coming together for best practices? Can you talk to that for a minute? Then I'll have a question for Amy.

[Oliver Pauk]

As an example on a much smaller scale, in Toronto there's an organization called “Toronto Studio Commons”. It's basically a way for organizations in our line of work to provide either studio space or visual arts space for production or for an exhibition of work. It's a way for us to stay in touch, share knowledge, and help each other out if someone's having concerns about something in the field. We meet every couple of months to speak about a different topic.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I thought your recommendation was to bring all three levels of government together, or representatives from all levels, to share and come together to do something.

[Oliver Pauk]

The recommendation we were making was actually to foster relationships among organizations that are in this line of work with cultural hubs. For instance, we're meeting these fine folks today, but without anything to really foster a relationship, or without someone taking the initiative to go and visit or call them up or that sort of thing, there's a missed opportunity for us to stay in touch and to share knowledge and benefit from one another's past experiences. It's about bringing together groups, whether it's digitally and connecting, but allowing people to be in contact.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank all the witnesses this morning.

We are going to suspend for a few moments as we ready ourselves for the next panel.

Thank you again for coming.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

I will call the meeting back to order.

On this panel, we again have four witnesses.

We have here in studio, as they might say, Jacquie Thomas and Michael Spence from Theatre Gargantua. We also have with us Sarah Douglas-Murray from the Creative City Network of Canada. By video conference from Vancouver, we have Judith Marcuse of the International Centre of Art for Social Change. Finally, by something that we haven't done before in this committee, I believe, by teleconference from the Jasper Community Habitat for the Arts we have Marianne Garrah.

We will start with Theatre Gargantua and Ms. Thomas and Mr. Spence.

I'm told that everyone understands that you have seven minutes for your presentations.

[Jacquie Thomas, Artistic Director, Theatre Gargantua]

Thank you very much, and good morning.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the cultural hubs in Canada.

I started a small company 25 years ago. With a considerable cheekiness, I called it Theatre Gargantua. We may not actually have been gargantuan, but our vision was. We struggled to pay our phone bills, but we made art that was noticed: highly physical, actors suspended in air, live music, and designs that transported our audiences and won awards. It's clear to us now that the success was fundamental to the long-term survival of our company.

There's one key factor in that early success that cannot be overstated. We had space. The arts-friendly congregation of an inner-city church in Toronto, the Church of St. Stephen's-in-the-Fields, allowed us to develop our process of creation and perform our work in their beautiful space. With 40-foot vaulted ceilings, raised wooden floors, and exposed beams for us to swing on, it was an ideal place for a young company with big ideas to thrive.

As we grew and artistically matured, our technical needs went well beyond the capacity of that small church. Our first work was lit entirely with candles, but now we incorporate more sophisticated media into our works, and we use multiple projectors, moving lights, and large-scale set pieces. Our vision is as gargantuan as it ever was.

There's really only one thing holding it back. There just isn't a space for it. Appropriate and affordable space is a challenge for artists across the country and, after 25 years, I can speak with a degree of expertise to the challenges we face in Toronto. Where once theatre companies could create performance spaces in abandoned warehouses, the incredible challenges in the real estate market have virtually eliminated these possibilities in our urban centres. The pressure on real estate in Toronto has been well documented, and there's a need for a solution for the loss of these cultural spaces. The need for dedicated, affordable, and appropriate space for the creation and performance of live arts is at a point of crisis.

Gargantua, along with our partners, the Théâtre français de Toronto and the Obsidian Theatre Company—respectively, Ontario's largest French-language theatre and Canada's largest black theatre company—is launching an ambitious project to create a new cultural hub in Toronto. We are three award-winning companies that present diverse practices for multi-generational audiences in both official languages, and we are determined to address the critical need for space for ourselves and other artists in the community.

Our hub will welcome our combined audience of close to 20,000 each year, including 6,500 school-age children. Our programming is open to the larger public and runs from 9 a.m to 11 p.m. on most days. These include workshops, student matinees, weekend matinees, summer camps, and weekend writing camps for teenagers, on top of our regular evening performances.

Guided by our shared values of accessibility, affordability, flexibility, and inclusivity, our vision includes a creative hub that houses two flexible performance spaces equipped to support artistic and technical innovation and two rehearsal halls, as well as other public gathering spaces. This will be a purpose-built complex on a main street accessible to all by subway.

It will support diverse artistic and cultural innovation. It will be an activated community hub where there is always something happening and something being created, taught, or presented. It will be a place to gather and tell stories, a practice that is at the root of all cultural manifestations.

[Michael Spence, Associate Artistic Director and Performer, Theatre Gargantua]

Culture is no accident. It always is the result of effort. It emerges from the efforts that people make to live, from the struggles we face and the unique strategies that we come up with to survive them, and from the ways that we celebrate when we are successful and the ways that all these things are transformed into stories. As artists, we feel the responsibility and privilege of being part of this transformation.

Cultural hubs are where we gather to hear and tell stories. They are local, they are alive, and they are activated with authentic conversations. A well-designed hub will be inviting and vital: a place that focuses on the community that houses it and gives energy back to that community. It will provide space for local voices and also for hosting opportunities for work from other communities, both nationally and internationally.

As cultural workers, we can bear witness to the profound impact of these spaces. We know that hubs can be cultural engines that spur economic development and that the federal government can play a big part in their success. Here are our recommendations on how you can help, some of which echo those of our colleagues who have previously spoken here.

The first is brokering relationships. Help us assemble partnerships so that federal, provincial, and municipal participation can provide a substantial base to leverage corporate, private, and even international stakeholders.

Next, make it attractive to be philanthropic. Encouraging philanthropy doesn't just mean tax incentives. It is about actively promoting it as an ethos for the nation.

The next one is public land. Create policy whereby public lands cannot be disposed of without first assessing their potential for, and making them available as, cultural hubs.

Finally, there is operating funding. Currently there is no place where cultural hubs can go for ongoing operating costs. This significant gap in the system has put cultural hubs, once built, in a position of competing with their own cultural programming for use of funds from the Canada Council for the Arts. There needs to be funding through the Department of Canadian Heritage for the not very sexy operations of hub spaces, since that's not something that sponsors and donors are really keen to contribute to.

We thank you very much for the opportunity to speak at committee today.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

Thank you very much.

We will now move to the video conference with Ms. Marcuse from the International Centre of Art for Social Change.

[Judith Marcuse, Founder and Co-Director, International Centre of Art for Social Change]

Good morning, everyone.

I'm sorry, but since I only speak French once a year, I am going to speak English.

I'm delighted to share perspectives and ideas about how arts and culture can become more truly integrated into the fabric of our country and to relate this to the creation of arts and cultural hubs or centres.

An artist myself, best known previously as a producer and choreographer, I presently lead a $3-million, six-year national study on art for social change, or ASC, involving six universities across the country, 45 scholars, artists, and community-based organizations. It's the first study of its kind in Canada and concludes in December. We’ve already made public over 100 results of this work, including information on the impact for individuals and communities and for systems change.

I work all over the world and am off to South Africa in a few days, and I know from experience that Canada is considered a leader in the field of art for social change.

What do I mean by ASC? We define it as “artmaking made collectively by groups of people about things that matter to them, this process facilitated by a specialized artist or group of artists”.

This work involves every discipline—performing, visual, literary, digital, and urban arts—very often in partnership with local change organizations: community-based non-arts organizations in a wide swath of diverse sectors, from health and justice, immigrant settlement, and economic development to cross-cultural, cross-generational, and reconciliation work and conflict resolution with youth and elders, as well as strategic planning in corporate situations and the creation of public policy.

At its centre is the artmaking. ASC is a form of art with its own unique goals, pedagogy, methods, and scholarship. It's a form of cultural democracy. It's about our own voices: the imaginative way we have to understand and address often complex problems.

There are over 400 organizations currently working in Canada in this sector, with a history of over 50 years in our country. The field is growing exponentially as organizations, artists, and change-makers from every sector are seeing the profound impact of this work. It brings the right brain into action. Creative innovation is at the heart of these arts-based forms of dialogue, as well as the resulting action for positive change.

How does this sector relate to arts and cultural community hubs? I will get to that very soon, but first I am going to offer you an image. It is an image of the ecology of arts in Canada.

At the top, we see the high arts, such as museums, art galleries, ballet companies, and opera companies, and we see cutting-edge artists. At the bottom, we see our granddaughter singing in the bathtub about her dog. In between, we have community arts: pottery classes, Sunday painting, and all kinds of other arts activities that involve the community. What I like to do is to make all of this into a circle where every element of that circle is connected to every other element. If we are to create a healthier, more innovative and imaginative, creative, cohesive, and engaged society, we need to be inclusive when thinking about policies that enrich our experience of the arts. It's not about just consuming the arts but about making art with others about what matters to them and making visible the diverse voices of our country.

Soon you'll be receiving a policy report that is a summation of all our work over the past five years.

There are specific policy recommendations for the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Canada Council. After decades of inclusion, the council has eliminated community-engaged arts as its own field of practice. The sector is basically not present on the council’s website. The absence of experienced artists on juries and the absence of criteria for assessment are problematic as well. Despite two years of attempting dialogue, our national working group has not been able to engage in productive dialogue about these issues.

The second set of recommendations, which you are to receive in both languages soon, are calls for action across federal departments, based on meetings I've had with some 34 federal officials in Ottawa over the last year. Our research reveals that the federal government is far behind municipalities, provinces, and foundations in its recognition and support for the arts sector, with only some 8% of the total. We are under the radar in Ottawa. In fact, many other jurisdictions have increased their support for this work as they see its profound, sustainable, and positive impacts. The social innovation and social enterprise community is just the latest to integrate these arts practices into their work.

Given all these realities, I offer positive possible approaches to the question of arts centres, cultural centres, hubs, or whatever they turn out to be. I very much endorse the perspectives of the Canadian Arts Coalition and those of the McConnell Foundation, which truly represent attainable and positive directions for future hubs and centres. I propose that Canadian Heritage mandate that community-engaged ASC activities be integrated into the policies, planning, and programs of new centres. One could even use an arts-infused dialogue process to create the policies for these new bricks-and-mortar—and perhaps virtual—hubs.

My experience is that the majority of many arts and cultural activities in this country presently take place outside of existing arts centres. Often, the centres are too expensive for small and medium-sized organizations. In particular, community-engaged arts tend to be isolated from the mainstream and are constantly in search of places to do their work in the community.