Evidence of meeting #120 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artists.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC
Absolutely.
You mentioned two other things that seemed to be troubling you.
During your testimony, you mentioned that the copyright policy splits your ownership. The other thing is digital access. What changes can we make? Digital access has given great exposure, but at the same time there are downfalls. Do you or anyone else want to testify to that?
Screen Composer, Screen Composers Guild of Canada
I don't want to take all the oxygen out of this, but we believe technology should not even be in the equation. Copyright is copyright, and it should be agnostic across all existing and all future technology. Copyright addresses ownership, and it addresses remuneration for the idea. As to how it's distributed, as long as it's fair, that's the idea. I think we want to support a techno-moral, virtuous vision of copyright policy for the 21st century across the board. I would love it if Canada took this stance to the world, as we did with cultural policy through UNESCO.
Liberal
Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC
Thank you.
Would anybody from the Canadian Association of Broadcasters like to add anything?
Chair, Board of Directors, Canadian Association of Broadcasters
It's really refreshing and sad, but it's true that we used to be in an ecosystem that was largely protected from foreign competition. We are all seeing the impact of this on the broadcasters and on the artists here, because we have all these new players coming from everywhere and they are not contributing to this system. For example, Netflix is not providing.... I'm not privy to that as well as you are, but clearly there is something there. There is something there because there are new players in the ecosystem and they are not contributing as regulated industries are.
Screen Composer, Screen Composers Guild of Canada
If you look at the Emmy Awards this year, you could see a very clear trend in terms of the highest-quality shows that are being the most awarded and watched. They're all coming from the streaming services. They're all coming from Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu. Those companies are making tons of money distributing the content—more money than ever before—but it's not being fairly shared. We need to be able to look at that in a different way and determine how we can see what's going on behind closed doors, how we can have access to that information, and make sure that the creators' rights are protected.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
That is the end of your time.
We will be going to Mr. Shields, please, for five minutes.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Thank you. I will share it with Mr. Yurdiga.
I have a couple of questions. I really appreciate the witnesses being here.
I'm going to the Canadian Association of Broadcasters. We haven't heard from major record labels yet, as you've suggested we might have. They haven't been here. You suggested we may have heard their side. We have heard a lot of artists talking about the 1.25. I don't think anybody has not brought it up. You have a partnership, but one of your partners sure doesn't like it. How is your relationship with that partnership if they are totally opposed to your position?
Chair, Board of Directors, Canadian Association of Broadcasters
That's really interesting.
I'd like to thank Mr. Nantel for bringing up the difference. It is true there's a difference between the English market and the French market.
This exemption is really helping small local businesses such as radio stations, but what we were trying to say in that text—maybe I've lost you somewhere because it's true that it was complicated—is the record labels are actually getting most of that money. Even though you try to increase these royalties from radio, most of it is going to flow out of the country.
Canadian labels get 2% of it. We estimate that Canadian performers get 28% of it, and 78% of this is going to Sony Music, Universal Music, Warner Music.... Is that what we're looking for?
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
No, I got that part.
What I'm saying is, all the artists that have been here want the 1.25 to go away. They have all been stating that it should be gone. That's the reason you exist. If you didn't have any musicians, you wouldn't be in business.
Somewhere, you have a fundamental problem with your main partner in understanding this. They don't understand it or somebody doesn't understand the issue here. Your partner doesn't understand this.
Chair, Copyright Committee, Canadian Association of Broadcasters
I believe witnesses from Music Canada and from Re:Sound have appeared before you. Both of those organizations are controlled and owned by the major record labels. They have brought artists in before you. I believe those artists were speaking to a different issue, because those artists were not played on the radio. They wouldn't have received the royalties that we're talking about here today. They obviously have other interests that they wanted to speak to you about that are very important to them, but for this particular issue, we're saying that the majority of the increase would flow outside of Canada.
September 25th, 2018 / 11:50 a.m.
Chair, Copyright Committee, Canadian Association of Broadcasters
I think that is one of the considerations in contemplating the right balance. You have to consider that this is money that is currently being spent on local Canadian programming, as opposed to going outside of the country.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I just think your partner's got a problem, in the sense they tell us something different.
Chair, Copyright Committee, Canadian Association of Broadcasters
I think the partnership between the labels and the artists is something that needs to be looked at. Right now, they have to split that remuneration fifty-fifty. That's prescribed under copyright legislation. If there's a willingness to rebalance that, then certainly that split could be looked at in favour of the artist.
David Yurdiga Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
Madam Chair, it's interesting. When I was growing up, I went out and bought—I'm not going to say an eight-track—
Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
—but cassettes, and CDs, and so on. But it was easy to track. There was a means where the artist could say, “Yes, last week I sold x number of CDs. Where's my revenue, my remuneration?”
My children grew up in a digital age. They're getting stuff from wherever. There are grey area markets. I'm not saying they're doing that, but there are so many options.
A lot of this revenue is not realized. How do we police the digital era right now? It's a struggle, because you know that file sharing and everything else really does affect the artist and whoever owns the copyright. There are a lot of issues.
Can you comment on that?
Screen Composer, Screen Composers Guild of Canada
I can just tell you that Netflix, for example, knows how many people watch their shows. They know more than that. They know when you get up to go to the bathroom. They know when you hit pause and when you start it again and how fast you went through that series. They have all that information.
I can't speak in such a sure way about YouTube. YouTube is a place where all the kids go to watch videos and listen to music, but you know that it's a company that is making a lot of money from content that's being uploaded and not being protected properly. How do you police it? That's a very good question.
Screen Composer, Screen Composers Guild of Canada
I would like to add something to that. The idea that we have for a levy to go on ISP is a very good way to start addressing that, because it's going to basically derive something from stream ripping, which is a big problem. When people post on YouTube, etc., they are consuming data to watch it. It might not be a perfect system, but it is, as I say, the first step to start to balance the equation. That would be perhaps the cleanest answer.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Okay. We'll be going for our final questions.
Mr. Breton, you have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My first question is for Mr. Posner.
All this new digital content arrived on the market a number years ago. You did of course have revenues. How many years have you been in the field, Mr. Posner?
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Okay.
So you have been in the field and have been a creator for many years.
What if any changes have you seen in your revenues in the past 25 years? Do you have to work harder to meet your needs? How has it evolved?