Canadian Heritage Committee on May 16th, 2019

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's perfect.

We could have used a lot of things. I honestly do understand why we had to welcome Mr. Brault today to discuss his budget, but I think it's a bit much to discuss that subject from the outset. At any event, you can say you have nothing to hide. Mr. Brault, you've been very frank. You've made your arguments very clearly. I believe the artistic community in your area must feel that it has a good representative and that he has defended it well. I just find it a bit much that you've been questioned this way.

You say you went from nearly 150 programs to 6. Could you help us get a clearer understanding of what types of programs they are? What are the various artistic disciplines? Are there organizations, festivals, artists and municipalities? Who gets support from the Canada Council for the Arts?

[Simon Brault]

The council used to organize its programs by artistic discipline. For example, there were 26 different programs for all kinds of theatre-related activities. The same was true of visual arts, and there were all kinds of detailed literature programs. So we had extremely granular suites of programs. That was attributable to the fact that the council had decided to create a new program for every new discipline or artistic activity that emerged in the landscape, and that went on for 60 years.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So you adjusted your programs accordingly.

[Simon Brault]

However, it got to the point where, after examining developments in the arts sector, we concluded we could have created 100 more programs over the past four years to recognize all the other artistic disciplines.

So we decided to stop using that approach and to introduce non-disciplinary programs. This is also being discussed internationally, and, to put it simply, international is international, regardless of artistic discipline, be it theatre, dance or visual arts.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It's a program in itself.

[Simon Brault]

So we have a program to support our artists internationally. Then we have a program to provide support for indigenous arts and another for dissemination in Canada. We also have the explore and create program, which focuses on artistic creation and is intended for all artistic creation companies. And we have a program for medium-sized groups and organizations that provide ongoing programming. Lastly, we have a program that focuses on business model innovation in the arts. These programs are currently in effect.

Rather than ask people who they are and in what artistic sector they operate, the council asks them what their project is about.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I've known many artists who were very proud to have sat on the peer assessment committees, which have always been the hallmark of the Canada Council for the Arts.

[Simon Brault]

We still use that system.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

How does it work for presenters, for example? Do they sit down at the table and make decisions?

[Simon Brault]

We still work with peers. Last year, some 550 peers came to Ottawa to conduct assessments. We use the same assessment system, but the way to get into the system is less focused on the person's discipline — theatre, for example — and much more on the nature of what that person does.

What we would expect from an organization such as the Théâtre du Nouveau Monde, which is an institution, is very different from what we want from a company consisting of three persons, say a choreographer, his best friend and another dancer. All organizations used to have to meet the same criteria and requirements, which was a major disadvantage for many companies. So we cleaned up the programs and simplified access to them.

We've been using this model for two full years now, and, frankly, I must say we've vastly improved the situation. We had to do it because the council and everyone were stuck. You nearly needed a sherpa to find your way through the programs. Now it's something we can explain to anyone. Artists, particularly the new generation, don't have the patience to deal with the old bureaucratic systems. We had to simplify matters in order to become more efficient.

Now I'd like to respond briefly to the member from Alberta.

While Mr. Nantel was making the introduction, last year in Alberta we received 606 applications, and the success rate was 44.2%, an increase of 8% over the success rate from 2015-16, so there is progress there.

However, I must add, just to explain the question of demand, that in B.C., the same province, the number of applications we received was 1,866. We don't decide that. It comes from the artists. The success rate in B.C. was the same, so the question of demand, for us, is the real question. This is where we are investing our efforts right now.

Canada Council is not creating art; Canada Council is recognizing and responding to projects that are formulated by artists. This is why we focus and we are travelling and criss-crossing Alberta and other provinces right now, to make sure that people hear about us and understand and gain more capacity to apply. We're there to respond, and the money is there. The good news is that over the last three years, we started by making permanent reinvestments in organizations. Now the big chunk of the money is money that is uncommitted, so there is real hope in terms of developing, and this is what we're working on, with honesty and passion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brault. We can feel your passion.

We'll go on with Mr. Hogg.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you very much. It must be an exciting time for you, with a growing budget. I'm sure the responsibilities that come with that, as you're telling us here today, are substantial as well.

You mentioned the number of people who apply being a reference point for you. You talked a bit about how you publicize that. You've changed the definition of your mandate—or rather, the mission statement remains the same, but you seem to be reflecting a more values-based approach that gives you more flexibility to respond to it.

Based on that values-based response or approach, what are the ways you're getting that message out? If we go across Canada, would most artists know about it? What are the connections? How do you do that?

[Simon Brault]

I must say that the Canada Council is an organization that is very well known across Canada, especially by artists. Just to give you a sense, one of the programs we are administering on top of the other six is the public lending right commission. It's 17,000 writers in Canada who get a grant from the Canada Council every year because their books are present in the library system.

We obviously use social media. We travel a lot across Canada. We partner with local arts councils, because there are arts councils in every province in Canada. Actually, all of them are here in Ottawa today, because they are at the Canada Council for training sessions.

We partner with local municipal arts councils and co-organize sessions with them most of the time, since we have more money. We organize town halls to meet people, explain the program and debate the philosophy. There's a huge outreach that did not exist before, because there was no new money, so there was no point. We were in a very defensive mode, and it was “No, no; there's no access to council.”

Now our responsibility is to get the money out the door and make sure it is in the hands of the artists, and this is how we do it.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I'm assuming you're conveying that message as well.

[Simon Brault]

Yes.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

You've made a decision to further support artists, that 50% of your funding is going to go directly to artists.

[Simon Brault]

Yes.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Is that working out well in terms of the applicants coming and the percentage, and all of that? It's a dramatic amount of money and a dramatic shift in the things you're doing.

[Simon Brault]

It's a good question. As I said, because the money was incremental over five years, we started by reinvesting first in organizations. There are hundreds and hundreds of organizations supported by the council. Now that this job is almost done, most of the new money every year is for projects. That is why we're now making a huge push everywhere in Canada to be out there talking with the artists and inviting them to apply.

We've committed 25% of the new money for first-time recipients. That's a lot of money. It's $137 million for people who never got a grant from the council. For people who have been saying it's impossible to get a grant, it's not impossible right now. It's very highly possible. We have a success rate that is higher than ever, obviously, with the new money. It's a time of artistic renaissance in Canada right now, and indeed you should see that.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

You made reference to thinking that we're one of the gold standards around the world. What can we learn from the rest of the world in terms of similar things? What countries or what areas are doing better than we are? What can we learn from them?

[Simon Brault]

It's a good question. After learning a month ago that I had a second mandate at the Canada Council, I was elected—the first time for a Canadian and a francophone—chair of the International Federation of Arts Councils and Culture Agencies, which includes 90 countries in the world that have funding systems similar to Canada's. I must be very honest and say that for the rest of the world, we are a beacon right now. People are watching what is happening in Canada.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Is there nothing we can learn from them?

[Simon Brault]

It's because we are reinventing ourselves, and we did not take all the money to give to the people who were already entitled to it.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

My time is going quickly here. I'm going to give a few seconds back to Mr. Boissonnault.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Oh, no.