Canadian Heritage Committee on May 17th, 2016

[Ian Koenigsfest]

I think we made the point this morning that we would like digital, and online, and social media to be part of our code. Our code recognizes the importance of fairness, accuracy, accountability, and integrity. I'm certainly a believer that regardless of the medium in which you are operating as a journalist, the rules should apply across the board. One of our recommendations was that an organization such as the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council might want to look at administering online and social media journalism as well, to ensure there is that level playing field in terms of accountability and integrity. We would welcome online and social media being brought into that fold.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

There's about a minute and a half left.

What are the greatest challenges—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Actually, you have two minutes left.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

—for your members?

[Andy LeBlanc]

On a daily basis the greatest challenge is producing the news to the top quality possible with all of the ethical factors in place—and yes, that can always be a challenge. Information comes in very rapidly from more sources than ever before. Filtering it is a greater responsibility than ever before. Getting it first is really important, but getting it right first is much more important.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

I don't have any more questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Perhaps I will ask either one of you to answer the question Mr. Maguire asked.

[Andy LeBlanc]

On the rural point?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Andy LeBlanc]

I would like to talk to it. I'm not sure I have a complete answer, but I think it's a bit like the chicken and egg perhaps. Which came first, or which left first? Did the people leave the community; therefore, local journalism left the community? Or are they connected? Is there a sort of cause and effect there? I don't really know.

One thing I do know is that there was an organizational study that I read recently—I don't know if it was in the U.K. or U.S.—which essentially reflected on citizen engagement, especially at the local level, the small-community level. What they found was that in the small places where there was local journalism, people were more engaged. The number of people who would go out to vote and participate in civic events was much higher than in the places that did not have local journalism.

Is that the cause? That requires further study, as with many things, but there certainly does appear to be an association connected with that. We do know from voting results that at the federal level we have the highest level of voter participation. At the provincial level it's down a notch, and then we get down to the municipal level, and in many cases less than one out of three eligible voters is actually going to the ballot. Does that reflect—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. LeBlanc.

Mr. Nantel for five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

A quick five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, of course.

Sometimes I wonder about the news and television services. Our goal is to verify certain things. I think that Parliament is doing its job, that it is trying to find solutions to a serious problem, which is only going to get worse.

The other day, I was watching KING 5, a Seattle television station that is associated with NBC. I was surprised by one of the ads. It was a corporate ad that sang the broadcaster's praises. It lasted about 30 seconds or maybe even a minute; it seemed fairly long to me.

Your local broadcaster does that.

It was interesting, but I think that sort of measure is a bit extreme.

Sometimes, I get the impression that the industry that provides content on our usual platforms is a bit like Canada's furniture industry, which is having the life sucked out of it by the Chinese. People think that a couch should not cost more than $500. I am sorry but that is impossible if you want a couch that was made by workers with good working conditions.

Right now, the competition is similar to that experienced in the music industry about 10 years ago when music suddenly became free. How can you compete with free?

We all agree that the purpose of our study is to show that regional news matters, that it helps build a sense of identity among people in that region. Whether the news is delivered via newspaper, radio, or television, it breathes life into a region, which as a result, is no longer just a bedroom community in the middle of a field with no local identity.

Could we not follow the example of great sites like GoGaspe.com? Someone talked to us about that. It is a news, local media, and local advertising aggregator. Would our large converging consortia agree to allow community television stations to broadcast their local news content? Today, my community was mentioned on the national news. Is that a possibility? I think that we need to rethink the model.

Before I turn the floor over to you, I would like to remind you that the music industry thought it had all the answers when I was working there. However, it was not until Steve Jobs came along that anyone thought of selling songs for $0.99. Have we gotten to the point where we have to sell news for $0.99?

[Andy LeBlanc]

It's a very complex question and I think the answer is likely complex as well. The initial question, if I understand it, is if you have the GoGaspe.com providing video that may be used by a regional or even national network, will they be interested in airing it in their limited number of minutes for each broadcast daily? Maybe yes, if it's that kind of story, if it's significant enough.

But I think what we're talking about here in local news is the kind of news that isn't going to make it there. The question is what is the value of that local news? We believe there's great value in local news, with people having greater engagement in their rural communities, as well as urban communities. Instead of asking about the advertising revenue, maybe we should ask what the real price or cost is of not having local journalism.

[Ian Koenigsfest]

Maybe it's how do we make sure that GoGaspe.com can survive? Part of what we talk about, whether it's seed money or a fund, is specifically for the GoGaspe.coms of Canada to be able to be viable entities for providing that important local and regional news. If information does make it on the national or regional broadcast, that's a bonus, but that shouldn't be the focus, I don't believe.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Do you feel that the Ministry of Industry—we are relevant to Canadian Heritage—is doing enough for this challenged news industry?

[Andy LeBlanc]

My guess would be that industry is doing what they are able to do to generate a profit based on the rules.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Sorry, I meant the government ministry, Industry Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds, Mr. Leblanc.

[Andy LeBlanc]

I would really just say that there is always more that we can do, in particular to try to find ways that maybe are not only looking after the larger entities, but also asking the question, how can we be creative about planting those seeds out there in the small communities to create more local news, that can operate independently and thrive?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I want to thank our witnesses.

This is about journalism and the ability to have journalistic integrity in the news, etc. This has been an issue that we've been talking about quite a bit, and we've heard people speak to it. You're the first one to tell that it could be possible with a code of ethics. So thank you very much for coming.

I'm going to suggest that we suspend for two minutes so that we can get our next witness, who is video conferencing, on board. Before we do, I should tell you that there are going to be bells beginning at 10 o'clock for votes at 10:30. We have someone who is coming online. I wanted to get some consensus from you, or a decision from you, as to whether we should give this person half an hour and then maybe leave here in time to get to the 10:30 vote at about 10:15 or just a little after that.

Can I get consensus on that? Can I get agreement?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Do you think it will be 10:30, or do you think it might be 11 o'clock?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The last information I have is that the bells will be at 10 for 30 minutes for a 10:30 vote. I don't know if that will change, as you well know.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It's Tuesday. There's no need for them to go to orders of the day.