Evidence of meeting #19 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
The Clerk
Not every member of Parliament per se, every member of the committee.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
The Clerk
Yes.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
Including the member for Nunavut.
I don't know what shrugging your shoulders means.
9:25 a.m.
The Clerk
Yes.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
The Clerk
Yes.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
Okay. I would like you to provide that in the future.
I would point out that that correspondence was not to go until we had received the order of reference, and then there was to be a 48-hour period for amendments to be filed.
We have not had 48 hours since the order of reference. As such, I put it to you that we cannot proceed to clause-by-clause study at this time, which offers us an opportunity to hear from some of the witnesses we know would like to appear but are not here today, and were not able to appear here today, including the grandson of Robert Stanley Weir, the actual composer who might have been able to answer some of the questions that people had today.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mr. Van Loan, the clerk is indicating that 48 hours in the House is two sleeps.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
It has not been 48 hours since we received an order of reference. Under the House rules, it has been 24 hours since we received an order of reference.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
I'll point out that this was a special rule that was adopted by this committee at the request of the government.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry, Mr. Van Loan. You may wish to proceed as saying it was orders of the government, but this committee made this decision on Tuesday, that in fact we would study the bill on this day. If you recall at the end of the meeting, I suggested that if you said you had witnesses on Tuesday that you would send them along, and you did. Obviously, this decision of this committee was observed. Therefore, we had said that if this is referred, we will deal with it on this day, and the committee agreed to this. We have followed the will of the committee in this instance, including you, Mr. Van Loan, who prior to the bill being referred to this committee, did send your list of witnesses. It showed that you understood that this committee had ruled on this issue.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
I understood that we had ruled that we would hear witnesses. However, it is quite clear that we need 48 hours' time from reference for individuals, independent members, to have an opportunity to submit amendments. That 48 hours has not been respected.
I'll point out that we have already had an occasion where the consideration that took place today was done in violation of the rules, the vote having been put while I was still speaking on the floor, without giving committee members here the opportunity to hear why I felt that members of the public would be denied the opportunity to appear. We now know that several members of the public who wanted to appear did not have the opportunity to appear. We've had that violation of the rules. We've had this witness's period of time to discuss this, that was on our agenda, cut short. Now we are proceeding with yet another violation of the rules that I'm hearing proposed, that we proceed to clause-by-clause study notwithstanding that we aren't respecting the rules that this very committee has adopted.
How many ways do we have to break the rules to jam this thing through? As I think I said quite clearly, when we think of the member who is sponsoring this bill, the very last thing he would have wanted was that we trample all over the rules of Parliament and this institution and what it means in order that this bill pass. That's a heck of a way to taint his legacy. I do not think it's what he had in mind.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mr. Van Loan, I do not accept that you have the authority to speak on behalf of the member who moved this, so therefore don't.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
Nor does anybody who says that's why we have to move quickly.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mr. Van Loan, do you agree that a duly passed motion by this committee, that passes a committee, is allowed to stand? This is what happened. The motion was passed. You actually did have an opportunity to make your points, Mr. Van Loan. You made them during that meeting. You repeated yourself, and one of the members said that this was repetitive and called for the question. Therefore, the majority on this committee agreed that the question be called. The question was called.
You, Mr. Van Loan, decided that you were not going to accept the will of the committee, and you continued to speak. Therefore, the chair's ruling, having been agreed on by the majority of the committee, was allowed to stand. Therefore, you, Mr. Van Loan, did not accept the will of this committee.
We now have a question on the floor to move to clause-by-clause—
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
Madam Chair, with the greatest of respect, on a point of order—
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I am finishing my sentence, Mr. Van Loan, whether you like it or not. So show some respect for the chair, please.
I will finish my sentence.
What we had here was an agreement. The will of this committee was accepted. We had a motion to go to clause-by-clause. This was accepted by the majority of the committee. The majority of the committee is now moving to clause-by-clause.
Mr. Van Loan, I think you are going to have to start respecting the will of this committee as its majority rules. Therefore, by a vote of seven to three—