Canadian Heritage Committee on June 14th, 2016

[John McAvity]

If we had our way, I think there would have been controls on the number of museums. We don't need any more, to be quite honest with you. What we need to do is focus on what we already have. Let's get the proper environmental conditions in there. Let's get the inventories done. Let's get them digitized. Let's get the stories contained in those museums out.

I'm not sure if you've ever been in a museum where they've said, “Oh, wait, we can't take any more people. It's too full.” That's not the case. It's not like a theatre. We have the capacity. We have the room. We do need to use it better.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You're right. Every community wants a museum, but really that can't happen. Sharing, as you guys have said, will be the key down the road.

I have one last question, and it's about the increased funding for the Canada Cultural Spaces Fund. The CCSF has had a year-long intake. Have you been invited to apply for that?

[John McAvity]

All museums are eligible to apply, but so are all kinds of other cultural entities, and don't forget that much of this has matching funding requirements as well.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. My goodness, you had only 40 seconds left. That was very efficient, Mr. Waugh.

Now I go to Mr. Breton for the Liberals.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today to tell us about the state of museums in Canada. I did not believe that I could be so interested in the subject. My thanks to Mr. Van Loan for suggesting it.

In addition, our discussions have also kindled my desire to revisit some museums in the coming tourist season. I am going to invite my friend Dan Vandal to come to my constituency and visit the Musée de l'ingéniosité J. Armand Bombardier in Valcourt. It has just been almost completely renovated. It was closed for six months. I was very surprised that the museum could close and do without income for all that time.

It leads me to the subject of infrastructure. Mr. O'Regan mentioned the increased budget for modernizing infrastructures in our museums.

Ms. Bachmann, just now you said that it was an issue and a challenge because a number of museums have not been renovated in the last 40 years. Clearly, the public's needs have changed. New generations want to see the museums promote themselves differently and adapt to information technologies. We increased the budget envelope to $160 million. That seemed a lot to me, but if you consider the number of museums that we have in Canada and if you divide the amount by that number, it is not very much. I understand that not all museums need financial assistance. Funds are there but the needs are extremely great.

Could you tell us about the needs you have identified and whether the envelope matches what museums are asking for?

[Karen Bachmann]

If I may, I will answer in English,

because I'm going to get a little passionate about this.

I come from a site where we have been in the community for 40 years. Our museum actually is a community museum. We're also an old national exhibition centre, which was created in 1972.

Our community decided that even though the federal government abandoned the project in 1999, we would continue with it. We were very happy to putz along with our lovely little site, but we had a major problem with it in 2009. We had a mould problem that actually caused us to close for four years. We travelled around the community with the collection, sitting in various arenas and different sites, which caused me to go very grey and all those wonderful things, but we were able to reopen. The community itself really saw the importance of the museum. There was a lot of press. Locally and regionally, the community wanted this piece still to be there, so we came back.

To make a long story short, we're actually applying to the Cultural Spaces Fund, hopefully for that June 30 deadline, to look at expanding our site. The process has been very welcoming. It's been very...I'm not going to say “simple”, because it hasn't been, but it's been very easy to apply. I encourage other museums to take advantage of it at this point in time, because there is a willingness to work with museums.

We thank you for that. It's something that I think is really useful. The new criteria in terms of what is available for museums within the Cultural Spaces Fund is encouraging. I hope that continues.

It certainly won't solve everybody's problems, but it is a nice little safety valve for those of us who need things like HVAC controls that need to be rejigged. We're looking at additional space for the community and at working with other partners in the community to bring in that community. I think the Cultural Spaces Fund will be of benefit. There's a huge influx of money this year, and I hope that will continue onwards. I know there are lots of other pressures, but it will help museums, and I encourage everyone to use it.

Thank you.

[Manon Blanchette]

I just wanted to explain why the needs are so urgent compared to what they were.

It is true that new museums have been created in the ecomuseum style and that they are very attractive to the public. That said, apart from restoring and maintaining the buildings, both of which are indeed expensive, we have to consider that the clients of museums have changed a lot.

We still have school kids, just as we had 40 years ago, but we are also getting older clients. Museums must adapt to those clients and make sure that people with reduced mobility can get in. That is very expensive. Things like elevators have to be installed. We cannot just consider those with disabilities, but also people who are blind, for example. We have to have programs available that really make museums accessible to people like that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Nantel, for five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

You are right, Mrs. Blanchette. I am thinking about the Mariners' House, which has impeccable access and a big elevator that takes you directly to a wonderful observation deck.

When Mr. Rivard appeared, he also told us that museums have moved from being about objects to being about subjects, ideas. It represents that perfectly. In addition, the connection between museums and education certainly guarantees long-term success. Kids go there and tell their parents about it; then they go back on the weekend with their families. It is fantastic.

Mr. McAvity, you mentioned coordination meetings that you want to organize with the indigenous community. That is a very exciting idea, I find.

We have already said that this is an exploratory study and that we could eventually undertake one in more depth. Under those circumstances, do you believe that the link with First Nations' history should be one of the themes in an in-depth study on Canada's museums?

[John McAvity]

Absolutely. We'll look at policy issues at one end, but we also want to be very pragmatic as well. Why are aboriginal people not more engaged in museums? Are they coming to our museums to not just see themselves but to see other cultures? Are we charging admission fees to them? Is that keeping them out? We don't know what the roadblocks are.

How do we get more aboriginals employed in our museums? Why is there not an aboriginal director of a national museum or a big museum in Canada? These are the kinds of issues that we would like to address, in addition to the United Nations declaration and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and what reconciliation really means.

I had a very interesting conversation with the director of National Association of Friendship Centres. Some 75% of aboriginal people are living in cities, and friendship centres are very important cultural facilities and meeting grounds. He had a very interesting perspective on reconciliation in the full sense of the word, so we see museums as having a role to play and we want to engage with indigenous peoples. Let's get this and let's do it right. It's time.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I think that is very brave of you. As I see it, you are one of the first groups from Canadian Heritage to propose the plan in a concerted and determined way. The Pointe-à-Callière museum has made a lot of room for the First Nations. I imagine that resonates with you too, Ms. Bachmann and Ms. Burrows-Johnson.

Would the communities where you live agree with establishing a better partnership? It certainly would be appropriate. When you talk to First Nations people about the 150th anniversary of Canadian Confederation, their reply is that they have been here for much longer.

Do you feel that their point of view would complement it, Ms. Bachmann?

[Karen Bachmann]

Absolutely. We are making a little bit of progress these days. We have begun to establish relationships with the Cree from Moosonee and Moose Factory in the north. We are also working with people from Attawapiskat First Nation, who come to our communities. We are starting to develop programs, but in collaboration with them, since we consider them as our partners.

It is a small first step. Any encouragement from the Canadian Museums Association or the federal government would help us a lot.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Ms. Burrows-Johnson, we wanted to look at the situation in small museums. As part of that, would it help you if we studied the matter by including the First Nations perspective?

I can speak in English.

Ms. Johnson, I'm asking you, as the study is focused on small museums, would it be useful to you if we added a study working specifically from a first nations angle?

[Susan Burrows-Johnson]

I think it would be very helpful. The Galt Museum and Archives brought in, with some British universities, the Blackfoot shirts. It was very important to the young people to work with the elders to understand. I was told it was like having a textbook from the past to be able to see those shirts that came from one of the prestigious universities in England.

I think it is very valuable to my community, which is located beside one of the largest reserves in Canada, to understand the aboriginal culture, but it is also important for the young people to understand their own culture and where they came from and what they stand on.

I think we have issues around the mental health of our aboriginal peoples, and I think the government is addressing them, but I think that participation in understanding and standing on one's culture is very important. I would absolutely invite that investigation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I'm sorry to cut you short. Thank you very much.

I want to ask you, before we end, a question about marketing. I think Mr. Van Loan—whom we should thank for this study, by the way—asked you a question about marketing being one of the problems you face. I know there is a problem in getting digitization going because of the expertise needed, but that would be a good way to do tourism marketing. You could have little digital samples that show what your museum does, so that when people come into Canada, they might head to a small museum in a small place because you titillated their interest by putting something in the window for them. It wouldn't cost as much to do that.

How do we get a fund to build that expertise and maybe even to have a visiting specialist come into different small museums and assist them in going digital? Would that work? How would that happen? Is there such a beast?

[John McAvity]

There's not such a beast, but we would probably be the organization to lead that process. We would be delighted to lead it. That's close to our mandate.

Stories that are in museums need to be unlocked. You're absolutely right that they can be done in quick little vignettes.

We also provide a number of programs that we haven't really mentioned today. For example, we give a free pass to every new Canadian when they're sworn in. It's now administered by the Adrienne Clarkson foundation, the Institute for Canadian Citizenship, but the genesis of the idea was with us. It's the same thing with Syrian refugees. In fact, I attended an event here in Gatineau just a couple of weeks ago. It was a very moving event to see the smiles on the faces of these people who have gone through such a miserable time.

We're there. That's our role. Our role is to open doors and to share the stories and the magic and the reality of what we have in our institutions. We don't want locks on the doors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank the witnesses for coming today and for sharing with us their expertise. Hopefully out of this will come a recommendation that we may need to dig deeper, but we will see. It's up to the committee to make that decision.

Thank you for coming.

Now I will suspend for a minute or two while we go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]