Canadian Heritage Committee on June 16th, 2016

[Catherine Cole]

The situation in Britain is pretty dire right now in terms of public funding for museums. I would say they're in an even worse state than we are, not necessarily at the national perspective but in local fundraising. Local funding has been totally cut, so a lot of local museums' councils are just shutting their doors. As I said, it's a huge problem there. The funding crisis is an international one for sure.

The big difference between the United States and Canada in terms of funding is that they have a totally different culture in terms of funding things. Museums are seen as a public resource in Canada. They are seen as government institutions. They are—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

They're European.

[Catherine Cole]

Yes. We follow the British model of establishing museums, so people think these are educational institutions and they should be provided for free. That's not the American situation.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Would you care to expand? Is there anything further when it comes to Europe, Australia, or New Zealand? Have you witnessed anything there that has helped them? Are they attempting to overcome the situation?

[Catherine Cole]

We are all making the same argument.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We are all making the same argument.

[Catherine Cole]

Yes, but I think what we are trying to do is diversify what we say our benefit to society is. We're really emphasizing that aspect to people so that people understand that what museums are today isn't what they were 20 or 50 years ago and that we are doing so many things in so many sectors across the country.

You mentioned the way our cities are changing in terms of their positioning in the world. Well, it's really important that we have city museums that look at what our cities are like, and yet in large cities in this country, we don't.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think one of the challenges for this committee is attempting, in everything we study, to find best practices in other parts of the world in common-minded countries.

To either one of you, when you talk to your colleagues abroad, have you witnessed any programming, particularly when it comes to funding and the relationships with their respective governments, that you would deem to be progressive or forward-thinking that perhaps we could look at or follow?

There's a lot of shrugging of shoulders. I guess misery loves company.

[Catherine Cole]

I think it's up to you to set the bar here. There isn't a best practice out there.

[Jean-Claude Poitras]

I have just been invited to cover the Seoul Museum of Design. I think there's a great political resolve over there to position Korea as a country with incredible design and fashion. Right now, there’s an absolutely extraordinary buzz around Korea. This country is setting itself up on the world stage in this field. For instance, I've discovered Korean designers at a big trade fair in Paris called MAISON&OBJET, where they had a group display.

This is the new image of Korea. Yes, we are design.

There is also the idea of international positioning. They invite people like me to cover this new, totally revolutionary museum of design, which mixes the most beautiful architecture in the world with the world of design. Everyone who loves design just wants to go and see what is happening in Korea.

[Joanne Watkins]

Is it a state museum?

[Jean-Claude Poitras]

Yes, it's a state museum. The industry of fashion and design came together around this museum. Everyone joined in and adopted this idea of positioning Korea as a forward-looking country.

I think it's the general will, but initially the Korean government decided to seek out the manufacturers, retailers and designers. It chose to change its image and position itself as a true leader. That was done within five years.

[Joanne Watkins]

When I talked about recognizing museums, we have been experiencing something special not only in Montreal, but in Quebec. In Montreal, there are about 40 museums. There are 400 in Quebec, and perhaps 2,000 in Canada. Montreal could position itself as a city for museum tourism. We could invite people to come to Montreal to visit the museums. We are constantly promoting big institutions, instead of uniqueness, variety and so on.

I think it is important that smaller and medium-sized institutions exist. Not all collections can be presented in the same places, because the purpose of big institutions is not always to show all sorts of collections.

In a nutshell, a Fashion Museum in Montreal is important. Other types of museums elsewhere are also important, regardless of their size. I am realizing that, the more things move forward and the more I work in the industry, the more inequity there is. Big institutions are pulling the strings more and more and are successful, both in the private and public sectors, in raising funds, although they can also say that they need money, proportionately speaking. When I talk about inequity, I mean amounts that, sometimes and suddenly, end up in a big institution and are not distributed among the smaller institutions. We are wondering what they are doing for that to happen. The way I see it, they are pulling the strings.

Actually, inequity is a problem. It is important to recognize all the types of museums and the uniqueness of museums everywhere. People who make donations, visitors, and especially those who contribute to collections freely are interested in specific institutions.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I'm fascinated by your response on Korea—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

In fact, what you're talking about is the rebranding of an industry, but also a rebranding of a country through a museum.

[Joanne Watkins]

That's the case.

Exactly.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think that's fascinating.

Go ahead.

[Catherine Cole]

Could I just speak on Korea as well?

In Asia—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I would go just to see this place.

[Catherine Cole]

They are putting a lot of money into museums and culture in Asian countries generally. They're seen as being very significant.

The Seoul Museum of History invited me over there a few years ago. They have a special international conference every year, and they bring in the world's greatest experts from a different region. They bring them in. We don't bring anybody in.

[Joanne Watkins]

They are museums of mediation.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much for your time.

I think we can do only a three-minute round in this session, because we've gone well over time. The second round is a three-minute round, not a five-minute round.

Mr. Van Loan, you have three minutes, please.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

You heard my question. Seamus touched on it a little bit. Does anybody have anything more to add to that? This is the notion of this shift in the U.S. from museums as public institutions to part of civil society, separated off from the public.