Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 27th, 2016

[Michelle Hoar]

Yes, that's a lot. It's hard for us to make recommendations for both the traditional media and ourselves. Trying to operate the way we do is quite different .

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Let me phrase it another way. If we were to come forward with the recommendations for traditional media tax credits and the return to advertising, that would be in direct opposition to the successful work that you've done. Are you not a shining example of where the industry has gone?

[Michelle Hoar]

I guess I would urge the committee to look for solutions that are beneficial to public interest journalism, regardless of what kind of business model it operates within. I'd like to see solutions that benefit the function within traditional media of public interest journalism. That's aside from any other things they might do in their newspaper, TV station, or whatnot. I don't know what that looks like. Maybe it is something like the TV journalism fund. I'm not sure. Maybe there is a fund for local reporting that is accessible to all types of media, regardless of whether they're online only or not.

I think some of the solutions that could benefit traditional media may also benefit organizations like ours, but not necessarily. I think we'll need separate things to stimulate our sector. Maybe that's a start-up fund that new experiments can access in order to get going. Maybe that's an expanded role for the periodical fund.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I think we have about a minute and a half left, so I'm going to ask you to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thirty seconds, actually, but I'll let you go over.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I'll give the floor over to you, Ms. Hoar, to maybe finish some thoughts on solutions, which you weren't able to do earlier.

[Michelle Hoar]

On solutions, there's certainly been quite a lot of discussion about the role of the philanthropic sector in all of this. I do feel strongly that Canada's charitable tax laws are extremely antiquated and need to be revised, particularly with regard to the definition, or the lack thereof, of political activity. I think that creates a chill on the philanthropic sector that has slowed innovation in our country, as compared to the U.S., Europe, and elsewhere.

I think that needs a really close look. I see that a consultation has been started on the charities act with regard to this, separate from the question of journalism. I think that's good. I think we need to look at any way we can to stimulate the philanthropic sector to come forward and invest, whether charitably or though some kind of social finance mechanisms, in the kind of work we do. That could even be for traditional media.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

With everyone's indulgence, I think we might have time for a second round of three minutes.

We will start with Mr. Maguire of the Conservatives.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

I have a quick question for Ms. Smith and Ms. Hoar.

Ms. Smith, I believe you made the comment about the monolithic companies needing to be broken up or separated. Can you expand on that?

[Robyn Smith]

Yes. I mean, that's just a dream, right? I look at all of the assets that the failing legacy outlets have, and I wonder what would happen if those reporters were in smaller outlets and better resourced. I don't truly have a plan for it. That's just a young, idealistic idea of what I would like to see, which is more of those reporters in Tyee—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Pardon me. I have limited time.

To follow up, did you bring that idea forward? We're trying to figure out how to get the news and media and that sort of thing into rural and remote areas. Do you think that would do it better if those people were more on the ground doing those local areas?

[Robyn Smith]

Yes. I think you can see many examples of successful small rural outlets that are very under-resourced. I think that would be a great step forward.

[Michelle Hoar]

Yes. I think when you have so many assets controlled by a small number of companies, they're going to put their resources and their efforts in their most profitable locations, and that's not going to be smaller centres. If we can pull that back in some way with more diverse and more localized ownership, I think that local news and local populations would benefit.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

I want to quickly ask both groups about this.

In your final answer to Mr. Vandal, you mentioned the international situation. Could you both comment on the local community media in Canada compared to that in other international venues and its viability compared to the kinds of rules that are happening in other countries?

[Pierre Harvey]

Are you talking about community media or local television?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

The local TV.

[Pierre Harvey]

Okay, the local TV.

As we said earlier, it is clear that we are facing a major challenge. As is the case for most Canadian media, our advertising revenues are under pressure. Moreover, we are competing against digital media. Of course we think it would be disastrous if local television were to disappear from our regions from one day to the next.

It is through local television that the public receives the information and local stories that are of interest to them. If people have something to day, they use local television to do so since it reaches a large number of people at the same time, which is not necessarily the case with digital media.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Harvey, I'm sorry, but if we're going to have the other two people ask questions, I'm going to have to cut you off there. Maybe you can keep that thought. Somebody else might continue it for you.

The next person will be Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I will let you finish answering the question that was just asked, if you wish.

[Pierre Harvey]

I did not really understand the question, because of the interpretation. I can tell you that local television is indeed facing a big challenge. It needs support from the government, from the CRTC, and from the industry to survive, whether through subscription revenues or funding. Without that support, local independent television will certainly disappear.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I can tell you that local news and local television are very important to our committee. Our communities must have greater access to them.

Moreover, if your television stations were to broadcast Montreal Canadiens games, I think you could increase your viewership.

That said, will the government's investment in the CBC improve the situation or not? You know the federal government will be making a substantial investment in the CBC.

[Cindy Simard]

Improve the situation for whom?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

For you.

[Cindy Simard]

For us? Definitely not.

[Pierre Harvey]

When the CBC decided to cut our advertising revenues, it knew that it would be receiving $165 million from the government.