Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 21st, 2017

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Okay.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Do you have more questions?

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

No, thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Then I'll turn it over to Mr. Brassard again.

You have five minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I'm not sure I'm going to take all that time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

That's fine.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I don't want to make this sound disrespectful, Mr. Fraser. We have a tremendous working relationship. But my sense after this is that there are more questions than there are answers to what this bill is actually intended to do. Any time there is confusion, it creates doubt, so I just want to make sure we clarify what you're trying to do.

I know that you spoke about affirmation on the symbolism of Remembrance Day coming out of Parliament. To pick up on something that Mr. Waugh spoke about, we could easily have done that had you presented a motion to Parliament. I think you probably would have had all-party support on the affirmation of Remembrance Day and the significance of it, because not one of us is doubting the significance, the reverence, of Remembrance Day and what it means to this country.

Is there any way, or are we now past the point, that we can move this into a motion as opposed to a bill? Do you know whether we're capable of doing that at all?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I'm not sure, but I'm not sure I'm going to look into it either.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I think the process would have been better served had you started off in that direction.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I appreciate that, but I think the problem is that you'd end up with the inconsistent language in the act. You can't change that with a motion.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Can you be a little more clear for me on the inconsistent language that you're talking about? I've heard a lot of discussion here. What exactly are you trying to clear up?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Fair enough.

Canada Day, “July 1, not being a Sunday, is a legal holiday”. Remembrance Day “is a holiday and shall be kept and observed as such throughout Canada”. Victoria Day, the “Monday immediately preceding May 25 is a legal holiday”. For Canada Day and Victoria Day, it's a “legal holiday”, and for Remembrance day it says, “is a holiday.”

There is an inconsistency in language there, which I submit was probably a drafting error when it was originally done, and we should fix it.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Right.

In any of the research we've done—and we asked the Library of Parliament, as I'm sure you did, about the definitions of “legal” and “holiday”. The answer we got back was that the distinction in terminology between a legal holiday and a holiday in the Holidays Act does not have any legal effects at all, as the three days in question are given the same treatment in other statutes and regulations governing working conditions for federally regulated employees.

My understanding from reading this and all of the information that we've had is that there's really no distinction between them, so are we actually clarifying something there?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

If a Canadian were to read this, they would see that there is different wording regarding Canada Day and Remembrance Day. I think we should fix that. If a lawyer is reading this and comes to the conclusion that there's no difference, then that's fine. That means that the other questions regarding collective agreements and what Mr. Waugh was suggesting earlier are fine and there is no problem.

I think we should, for a plain-language reading of this for ordinary Canadians, make sure the language is consistent. I agree with you that it may not do a whole lot, but it shines a light on this important day and it allows us to have the debate in Parliament and fix a drafting error that was made a long time ago.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

I will just reiterate that my line of questioning is not to diminish the value of what you're trying to do here. I really believe that your intent is sincere. We're just trying to better understand it. I'm certainly trying to better understand it so that I can bring it back to my caucus colleagues and try to explain to them exactly what your bill represents.

Initially there was a lot of confusion within our caucus. There probably still is, but I am not doubting for a minute your intent and your sincerity in trying to raise the prominence of Remembrance Day and what it should mean to Canadians if it isn't at that level already.

Thank you, sir.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Brassard.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you.

There is just a comment from Mr. Samson, and then we'll go to Mr. Nantel.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I just want to make a comment.

I think bringing some consistency to this is very important. If someone is reading it and its definition is different but it means the same thing, then why is the definition not consistent?

As for the definitions, I would say that bringing some consistency to them is the best approach, along with bringing more focus and more light and discussion to this. Really, it's the question of bringing some consistency around it by having the same wording for the three holidays.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

Mr. Nantel has a comment as well.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to ask you a question.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You may speak in French if you wish.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It's okay. Let's try to get through this.

No matter what the provinces do or decide with that specific day, what is the difference between July 1, Victoria Day, and Remembrance Day? What is the difference? For example, why is July 1 a super holiday everywhere and why is it not for Victoria Day? What would it be for Remembrance Day?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

It's up to the provinces to make it a statutory holiday to concord with the federal act, if they so desire. In response to an earlier question, I said that Victoria Day, for example, is in the Holidays Act as a federal statutory holiday but it's not a statutory holiday with a day off in four of the provinces. It's up to the provinces to enshrine in their law what they deem to be a day off.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

In order for me to educate myself, why is July 1st a holiday in all provinces, then?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I didn't look into what the provinces have listed as their statutory holidays, but I assume that in each province they have passed it as a statutory holiday. If I'm wrong on that, I stand to be corrected. The provinces have the constitutional jurisdiction to regulate days off for regular working folks, schools, and all of that. That's in their jurisdiction.

I assume July 1 is considered a statutory holiday because at some point a law was passed in each province deeming it so. Four provinces don't have Victoria Day, and two don't have Remembrance Day. There are two that do it differently.