Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 18th, 2017

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

It is not necessarily for religious communities per se. We have it for all communities where we have community engagement to basically raise awareness and help them identify pathways or other services that could help them. From a front-line policing perspective, we do community engagement on a regular basis. In our overall operational policing activities, we have community engagement. It's not just for religious communities.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay. I think have about a minute left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have a minute and a half.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Then we can have an even better discussion here.

I want to come back to Ms. Aitken's statement. You talk about Canada being among the top-ranking OECD countries on a measure of tolerance with respect to community acceptance and minority groups and migrants. We have a score of 84% compared to an OECD average of 61%, so it is considerably higher. I am just wondering if you can square the circle, because we're talking today about systemic racial discrimination and systemic religious discrimination across Canada. How do we square that circle? The whole motion is about studying these systemic issues, yet your information seems to say that Canada is doing pretty well. I don't know what the marking system is. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[Jenifer Aitken]

I'm not sure how much I can help you with that. As I said in my remarks, there are areas of concern, such as statistics that show an increase in hate crimes, for instance, and there are positive things. There are many indications of positive things in diversity and the inclusiveness of Canadian society. The Canadian Heritage programs that contribute to that sense of belonging and pride in Canada are very important, from our department's point of view. Those facts are true as well. It's not one or the other, I guess.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think my time is up, but I can keep going.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, you're finished. Thank you very much.

Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thanks very much, Madam Chair, and I want to thank all the officials as well for appearing before our committee.

I have many questions, so I'm going to start with the statistics, because I think they are important.

My first question is to the deputy commissioner. Based on the data you shared with us, I'm wondering how many of those incidents are prosecuted. If they are in fact prosecuted, how many of them are successful in terms of outcome, and if they are successful, what is the sentencing?

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

Unfortunately, I don't have that information at hand, but I could come back with a written response to that question if you want.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would love to have that information, because I think that would be very useful. It would be good to get that information as a year-to-year comparison so we can see how things have evolved. I understand that the data is only available up to two years ago and that there's no more current data than that.

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Okay. If we can get that data as you collect it...to also break it down in terms of what kinds of hate crimes we are talking about, so that we have a sense of it, not a general sense of hate crimes all together. For example, is it on the basis of religious discrimination and hate, and if so, which faith? That kind of information would be very useful and helpful.

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Ms. Aitken, on the government action, you listed a host of different programming and different things like that. I think Ms. Banerjee also offered some information around that as well. Is there a comprehensive approach, a government action plan, if you will, that targets systemic discrimination and religious discrimination? Is there any such plan?

For example, Canada had a five-year plan, Canada's action plan against racism. There was an evaluation on it. Then there was some promise about renewing it, and of course nothing happened. I'm wondering what has happened to that plan. Is there any work being done with respect to that? Is there any government action on a government plan on the whole to address this rising issue that we now face in Canada?

[Jenifer Aitken]

The action plan that you're referring to was a five-year plan, and it did sunset. It was an umbrella for a number of initiatives. There were several initiatives that were part of that plan and continue today, such as the statistics collection that we've been talking about, and several others. Diversity and inclusion is a priority of the government, and there are many initiatives. There isn't anything at the moment that's called the action plan of the Government of Canada.

[Ritu Banerjee]

Maybe I can just add that we are committed to developing a national strategy to counter radicalization to violence. We're hopeful that the strategy will be developed by next year. Part of us getting to the development of the strategy is an engagement process over the next few months.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you for that.

I think that there are two aspects that we're talking about. Counter-radicalization is really important work. There's no question about that, but the day-to-day experience, the lived experience of systemic discrimination and religious discrimination is very real. The work that you're doing on it may be within a different realm of the radicalization. I think that we need both. I hope that the government will take a look with respect to that.

It would be great for this committee to get the information on that action plan, the Canada action plan on racism, to find out what aspect of that plan is continuing in terms of programming, how much is being put towards it, what stage it is at, and which parts are not continuing. There was an evaluation done, and there is important information. Maybe we could build on that work going forward, coming out of this committee, and maybe in other realms. I wonder whether or not that's information that could be shared with this committee.

[Jenifer Aitken]

Yes, that is something that we could provide.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Fabulous.

I just want to build on this. I appreciate the work that's being done on collecting data. StatCan is providing some information, but we also know that there's a lot of data that is not being collected. I come across constituents all the time who share their stories with me around their lived experience of discrimination. Sometimes it's systemic discrimination and discrimination on the basis of religious beliefs. In fact, most recently I came across a young woman who told me that her employer told her that because she wears a niqab, if she wanted to get more hours of work she should not wear it. That's a lived experience. She hadn't reported it to the police or anything like that, but that's real. It has great implications in terms of economic impact for people as well.

I wonder if anybody can share with the committee—maybe not at this moment because I have less than two minutes now—your ideas and suggestions on how to collect that data, including data that's online. There's a lot hate going on, I'm sad to say, including the stuff that goes on online. How do we track that and how do we deal with that in an effective way that brings in accountability for people who seem to think that they can just hide behind a faceless and fake name?

Maybe I'll lead with Ms. Aitken to see whether or not there are some ways in which the government can offer...or suggestions at a later time to provide us with ways of collecting data, beyond what is being reported to StatCan.

[Jenifer Aitken]

One point I might make there is when you talk about discrimination. All of the provinces have human rights codes and there's a Canada human rights code as well. That's one place where the information about discrimination is collected.

From a Canadian Heritage point of view, a lot of the information we try to collect is about a sense of belonging and inclusion, so I'm not sure whether we would be the right place for more data on discrimination, but I'm happy to consider it and provide what we can.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If you can consider it, that would be very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, we're gone over time now. Thank you. Perhaps on another round, Ms. Kwan.

Now I go to Mr. Breton and Mr. Vandal. You're splitting your time I understand.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll start, and then share my speaking time with my colleague Dan Vandal.

Thank you everyone for being here today to contribute to this important study.

I'm interested in the multiculturalism policy, Ms. Aitken. I live in a rural region. In my constituency, 119 nationalities are found and 40 languages are spoken. We consider this an asset. It's extraordinary that all these nationalities are found in our region.

I want to know whether the multiculturalism policy is applied differently in the regions, in comparison with the major centres. If applicable, I want to know how the policy is adapted to the reality of rural regions.

In our region, immigration has increased significantly only in the last 10 to 12 years. Things are proceeding relatively well.

That said, I have the impression that much more effort is made to raise awareness in the major cities. In rural regions, we hear much less talk about the matter.

I want to know how people outside the major centres will be informed of the multiculturalism policy and how the policy will be adapted to the regions.

[Jenifer Aitken]

The policy of multiculturalism is a policy for Canada. The programs that operate under the policy provide funding for projects and for events, and quite a number of those things that are funded are in the regions. I couldn't give you an exact breakdown right now, but they are spread out across Canada. Certainly, the programs support events and projects that would be specific to regions and to different parts of the country at different locations and so on.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

In this case, we're talking more specifically about the inter-action program. I imagine that the locations of the events and the purposes for which the money is used are public information. I think it would be useful for the committee to be able to provide a breakdown and to compare the situation in major centres with the situation in rural regions. We would appreciate it if you could provide this information to the committee.

Since there's not enough time to provide an answer, I'll leave the floor to Mr. Vandal.