Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 27th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We're moving into the second round. It's a five-minute round, with five minutes for questions and answers.

We will start with the Conservatives.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I honour your words, but I must add that there are two things that are fundamental to that description. One is that we did vote against it. We negotiated with the mover of the motion to remove the word “Islamophobia”, because we felt it was endemically problematic, and replace it with “hatred towards Muslims”. The mover of that motion said she would not do that.

Second, we're involved in this because the motion passed the House, because of the majority in the House, and we wanted to make sure that we are part of the process, because we felt it very important. That's why we're here.

If you had a question to ask and you could ask it, what would it be?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's just changing the rules, Mr. Sweet, but go ahead. I will allow it. I will take the chair's discretion and allow it.

[Raheel Raza]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

If I were allowed to ask a question, I guess what I would say is, what is the point, then, of bringing people in for testimony if it has already been accepted and agreed upon? You are going to go ahead with the study. As a Canadian citizen, I am here because I am concerned about the long-term ramifications of this motion. Yes, it is not a bill at the moment, but indeed it could become a bill. It could become legislation. That would be very dangerous for the Constitution and for the people, in terms of freedom of expression.

I come from a theocracy, so I appreciate the freedom of expression, the freedom of choice, the freedom of being able to express an opinion, even if it is critical. This is something that I stand up for and constantly argue for.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Ms. Raza, how long have you been on the forefront of religious freedom, particularly in the Muslim community, as well as women's rights? Would it be at least a couple of decades?

[Raheel Raza]

Yes—more. I date myself, but at least three decades.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

How many countries and communities around the world have come to you for your expertise?

[Raheel Raza]

I have given advice to the Swedish government. I have spoken to the British Parliament. I have spoken in the United States, and here in Canada as well. Of course, electronically, I have given advice to government people in other European countries as well.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I would hope, for my colleagues, that the Biblical phrase would not be true here, that the prophet would be honoured in her own land.

I want to ask you something specifically, because we've kind of danced around it. What is the problem with “Islamophobia”?

[Raheel Raza]

First of all, the meaning is vague. Second, as I have mentioned, the term “Islamophobia” was coined after 9/11—you don't have to take my word for it; it's all electronically available—by an operative of the Muslim Brotherhood, who actually said, and is quoted as having said, that they would throw this term out there so that there is no questioning, criticism, or any kind of discussion about Islam and Muslims.

I believe that, to a great extent, they have succeeded. It's a new term. It didn't exist 30 years ago. I had never heard of it until 9/11, and it was put out there to effectively stem any kind of critical debate or discussion.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

You are saying that debate is a healthy thing, and this term is designed to quell debate.

[Raheel Raza]

Yes, debate is a healthy thing, especially in the climate we are living in today, as far as Muslims are concerned. The term “Islamophobia” obviously deals with Muslims. We are living in very turbulent times, when there needs to be discussion and debate, which is where the Muslim community is coming into the picture as well.

This irrational fear.... I'll give you an example. I've been teaching courses at Ryerson University for the last five years, and my course is on Islamism and radicalization. They have to ask the question, “Is that Islamophobia?” No, it isn't. There are some very critical discussions that take place, because they are authentic. They are valid. They are talking about real issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Sweet. You have 30 seconds, so if you think you can fit a question in, go right ahead.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I think you would confirm, then, what Father de Souza said, that there is an abundance of healthy theological exchange happening. It's making a positive difference, and this would quell that debate.

[Raheel Raza]

Yes.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Now we're going to Ms. Dhillon for the Liberals, for five minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you for coming here today.

We've heard a lot about what “Islamophobia” means. It doesn't mean curbing freedom of speech, all that stuff. I would like you, please, if you can, to refrain from all that and give us concrete, positive solutions as to how the government can reduce or eliminate systemic racism and religious discrimination for all communities in Canada. What can be done?

[Raheel Raza]

Public service messaging is a great idea. It happens in many countries. I've seen it in Europe and in the United Kingdom. This is public service messaging, in various languages, that speaks about tolerance and understanding and diversity.

We already have a thriving acceptance of diversity in this country. I am involved in travelling to educational institutions and law enforcement agencies to speak about diversity and the beauty of diversity, which is a very important component in educating the masses. I don't believe that Canadians at large really understand the difference between, let's say—I speak as a Muslim—Islam and a political ideology. It's important to have those conversations.

The media needs to play a more thriving role not just in upholding one faith community but in talking about issues of diversity. How do we interact with each other? How do we relate to each other? What are the challenges our youth are facing in educational institutions? Perhaps the government could stick their head in and see what is happening there. Are there youth of various ethnic backgrounds who are being targeted, and if so, why?

These are the places in which we begin. We begin with youth at a very young age, because that is where hate is taught. If hate is not taught, then they will grow up to be very tolerant and very accepting citizens of this country.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Canadian values need to be taught to new immigrants coming into the country. It's all part of a process, and it can be done at various levels and in various ways. I do it in a very small way, but if it's taken over by the government, they can have a very healthy dialogue.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

You spoke about the media. Have you ever approached them and asked them to be more objective in their reporting, for example?

[Raheel Raza]

I have, many times. They hate my guts.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

We're talking about systemic racial discrimination, for example, stopping and frisking black people on the street. What are your views on that?

[Raheel Raza]

I think any kind of racial discrimination needs to be discussed at the level at which it's happening, with the forces that are doing it. They need to have a better understanding. I believe that the Canadian law enforcement agencies are really handicapped, because they are dealing with such diverse communities but don't really have the in-depth knowledge. There needs to be better interaction.

Again I can only speak for myself. They have come to us and asked for some sort of training and insight into the diverse Muslim communities, of which there are almost 60 different nationalities and cultures existing here. It is up to the individual communities to reach out. This is not a one-way street. If we want a better life and better understanding of the issues, the communities also have to play an important role in working with the institutions. Communities, individuals, and organizations need to work with institutions, perhaps under the umbrella of the government.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

May I ask what kind of training you have provided to law enforcement agencies?