Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 4th, 2017

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Sorry, I'm just going to interrupt you for one second there. Would that mean that the federal government needs to fund the school board so that the teachers themselves would have PD days, funded to be able to learn about these differences and then be able to pass that information on to their students?

[Dr. Anver Emon]

It would certainly involve federal and provincial coordination on that matter, yes.

I will also suggest that public universities offer an important site for thinking about diversity at a more systemic level. They're often the best place for thinking about the complexity of our democratic culture through difference, but oftentimes they don't move on these things without external pushes like, for instance, a recommendation from a standing committee report.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Gardee.

[Ihsaan Gardee]

I would just refer you again to the third recommendation we made, which was that the federal government create an anti-racism directorate within Canadian Heritage to work with provincial counterparts such as the Ontario anti-racism directorate, which is undertaking a study of this.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, thank you. Sorry, I'm just going to cut you off because you can have a directorate, but part of the issue, for example for a school board, is that they cannot have these training sessions in place because they're not funded. And to fund it, you can't tell the province to just fund it. So if we're going to do this nationally across the country, should the federal government then fund this strategy for all of the provinces, for all of the school boards across the nation?

[Ihsaan Gardee]

They should be part of the national action plan against racism that I mentioned and suggested should be undertaken, and there should be, as Professor Emon said, coordination between the provinces and the federal government.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Professor Zine.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

You're past time.

I'm going to have to—

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Mr. Chair, I think we had an agreement on procedure. I would rule it out of order because—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

There was no[Inaudible--Editor] on any agreement. A motion to adjourn is not debatable.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

—it's contrary to a unanimous consent motion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

I'm not going to entertain it, because it's fundamentally unjust.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

It's not debatable.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

Mr. Reid, you can proceed.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

It's Mr. Sweet.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

Oh, Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

To be clear, any hatred, discrimination, persecution, or violence against Muslims is absolutely wrong. It should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. To be clear, we are also the ones who have a problem with the term "Islamophobia", however not [Inaudible--Editor].

Mr. Gardee, you mentioned that you felt that the meaning was quite clear in the Muslim community, but we've had testimony before from people within the Muslim community who had very deep concerns about the term “Islamophopia”. And today, Ms. Zine introduced a seventh definition of Islamophobia to us.

My concern is that, when it comes to hatred, persecution, and discrimination, clarity really needs to happen. Ms. Zine also mentioned that demonization of Islam would be something that should be criminalized. I'm wondering where the criticism of Islam moves into demonization. Secondly, are you in agreement with the definition of the Toronto District School Board's definition of Islamophobia?

[Dr. Jasmin Zine]

I'd like to respond because you have misquoted me. I never said “demonization of Islam should be criminalized”.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Okay.

[Dr. Jasmin Zine]

I said that there are hate crime laws that determine the boundaries of lawful dissent in terms of speech. I said that demonization gets mapped onto the bodies of Muslims who then become victims of Islamophobic violence as a result of those types of ideas. I'm not suggesting it be criminalized.

You talk about the different definitions. I could ask everyone is this room to give me a definition of racism, and they will all come up with different definitions than I have as a race scholar because not everyone has textbook definitions, but people understand it and know it when they see it.

So again, I think my colleagues have asked why we are holding Islamophobia's definition up to a higher standard than we hold other definitions. Even the definition of culture has changed throughout the centuries, and there are about 40 or 50 different definitions for that. Why are we holding this to a different level?

I've tried to outline a working definition that can be used to help dismantle Islamophobia, and I've worked on educational projects with UNESCO and the Council of Europe on how we combat Islamophobia using a definition like this. The operational definition has been there, and it's been used in other national contexts.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I think one of the reasons why we're holding it to some standard—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Chair, we need unanimous consent to continue, and you didn't get it, and I'm sorry I'm going to—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

We do not need unanimous consent. We're continuing.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Well, you have a non-debatable motion on the floor here to adjourn, so—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Van Loan]

We're not entertaining that, because we had unanimous consent as to the—