Evidence of meeting #78 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crime.
A recording is available from Parliament.
October 18th, 2017 / 4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Thank you very much.
First, I want to thank both of you for your excellent and very thoughtful presentations. I much appreciated them.
I want to talk about hate crime data collection. You may or may not have specific information on that. If you don't, just let me know.
First, can you tell me if the data collection on hate crimes is consistent across the country? Let's start with Tamara and then Mr. Hashmi, if you have that information.
Policy Researcher and Analyst, African Canadian Legal Clinic
When I pulled the information I mentioned today, it was from the justice institute for statistics collection, I believe, the Juristat. The way it was presented, it seemed as though it's applicable across the country. I'm not sure how that data was collected and whether or not that collection was consistent, so I can't speak to the consistency of that information specifically.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Okay, that's fine.
Mr. Hashmi, do you have any comments?
Spokesperson, Canadian Council of Imams
Yes, my comments would be similar, although I would say that the real question is how to define a hate crime. Also, once there is agreement about that, there should be specific measures in place, at the right places, to ensure that data is collected. There definitely is an issue of under-reporting of hate crimes.
It seems there are a number of issues that need to be addressed, and it's frustrating for victims to be subject to a crime, to be a victim, and then find out later on that for some reason the incident was not classified as a hate crime when they strongly felt that it was.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Ms. Thomas, I have a document from your organization. It's the anti-black hate crime tool kit. I'm assuming you're familiar with the document.
Policy Researcher and Analyst, African Canadian Legal Clinic
I haven't read that document, but I am familiar with its existence.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
I'm wondering if you could tell me how long this document has been around the organization.
Policy Researcher and Analyst, African Canadian Legal Clinic
I am not sure. There's no date on the document itself. I don't know when the document was published or when its distribution began. What I can do is collect answers to questions I'm unable to answer today and get back to you.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Perhaps I'll change subjects slightly. Could you both comment on the role that the Internet has played in hate crimes in the last few years, cyberhate, and what your perspectives are on that?
Let's start with Mr. Hashmi, and then Ms. Thomas.
Spokesperson, Canadian Council of Imams
It used to be that if you had bigoted views and you wanted to share them, or there was something socially unacceptable that you wanted to say, you had to go through a lot of effort. It's a lot easier now with the Internet. People are free to hold whatever views they want, but they can't cross into the realm of hate speech. Unfortunately, it appears that the Internet is really an unpoliced playground where anyone can say anything they want, pretty much with impunity.
The case in Montreal that was mentioned in the previous presentations was one that stood out as being maybe the first one in which some action was taken. Our concern is that if nothing is done, a lot of harm could come out of the Internet hate speech published in Canada. It could lead to different types of criminal activity. That's why we're strongly emphasizing putting in resources to ensure that hate speech on the Internet is followed to see where it's coming from and what type of action it is trying to lead to.
Policy Researcher and Analyst, African Canadian Legal Clinic
The proliferation of negative ideas, stereotypes, hateful information, and hateful beliefs over the Internet makes it difficult to tackle the issue. I believe the Canadian Human Rights Act used to have a section—I think it was section 13—that could have been used as a recourse by people who had been negatively affected by the proliferation of hateful information via the Internet. That section no longer exists, but I think avenues like that are necessary because of the difficulty in dealing with the proliferation of hateful opinions over the Internet. There is little opportunity to check people who are disseminating those thoughts.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Could you give us some solutions? What's the most important step we could be taking as federal government leaders?
Policy Researcher and Analyst, African Canadian Legal Clinic
Sorry, what's the most important step...?
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
What's the most important step we could be taking towards solutions for combatting hate?
Policy Researcher and Analyst, African Canadian Legal Clinic
Right. I really do think that at this current time, continuing to publicly denounce these acts is of vital importance. Leadership and action from the federal level is critical to presenting to the general public the perception that the government really cares and that the government is not standing behind those individuals who are espousing these problematic views.
My organization really does believe in the importance of having a national action plan to combat racism. I do believe that a couple of other community organizations, legal aid clinics, and representatives who have appeared here have put forward the same idea. It has been put forward at the international level in front of several bodies, and it has been recommended by international bodies, such as the working group.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Ms. Thomas. I'm afraid the time is up, but you can add this in your next round.
Now we go to David Anderson from the Conservatives. You have seven minutes, please.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
Imam Hashmi, I'm interested in your organization. I followed this a little bit on the Internet. We had a big discussion here about Islamophobia and the definition of that. You didn't use the word much in your presentation. Do you have a definition that you like to use, or do you just stay away from the word in your conversations?
Spokesperson, Canadian Council of Imams
We understand Islamophobia to mean anti-Muslim hate, but our focus is really on action and the problem itself. Whichever term you choose to use is really up to you. There's a problem, and we need to deal with it.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you.
May I ask you how inclusive your organization is? You're a council of imams. Are you kind of across the board, as far as Islam goes? You're Sunni yourself.
Conservative
Spokesperson, Canadian Council of Imams
There are members from across the country. It's Sunni as well as Shia imams.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you.
I would like you to tell us a little bit about your interfaith work. I think you've done a fair amount of it. How do you find that fitting into this discussion around Islamophobia and hatred in these communities?
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I'm just interested in your interfaith work and how you approach that in trying to bring about peace between communities.