Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2017

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much. I think my time is up anyway.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I go to David Anderson, for the Conservatives.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for being here with us today.

I'd like to hear a little more about how you put this whole process together. You had a community meeting or a dialogue. How were attendees chosen for the dialogue? Were you invited?

[Serah Gazali]

It was an open call. We received it in a short time and at the end of the day. I think it was between 6:30 and 9:00 during a workday, and surprisingly, 53 individuals attended. I think that speaks to how important this issue is to many people.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

How would people have found out about it?

[Serah Gazali]

It was through an announcement from Frog Hollow and I think from Kiwassa, and through networking. For example, when I received it, I shared it with friends.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

One of the things you didn't mention in your presentation is that Ms. Kwan organized the whole thing, so I think we should have some clarity and transparency on that as well. It came from her office. The initiative was hers to develop, and then people were contacted and then invited or allowed to come to this meeting. Is that correct?

[Serah Gazali]

I think it was initially through Frog Hollow. They approached Jenny Kwan with this issue, and she agreed to attend.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

From reading the report, it sounded more as if she organized it.

When you were given a series of questions to answer in the evening, who came up with them? How was that organized?

[Serah Gazali]

Do you mean the recommendations, or which part?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

The report said you had a series of questions at the beginning of the evening that directed the discussion.

[Serah Gazali]

Yes. We asked different questions, such as whether anybody faced issues with finding employment, if they faced discrimination at work, whether they experienced racism or religious discrimination.

There were so many questions, and we were surprised that despite our diversity, we somehow either experienced racism, were victims of racism, or were witnesses to instances of racism and bigotry.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Can you just tell me a little about the contents of the report? I notice on pages 8 and 9, 11 and 12 in the report that you talk about funding for a whole variety of things. If you could, I'd like you to prioritize this in some way, because in small-group discussions, they wanted targeted funding for a national strategy, non-profit organizations, provinces and territories, and different aspects of school curriculums. Later they asked for a complete review of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada funding. There's a mechanism by which all recipients of federal funding have to manage and report back on how they're spending it, a new targeted funding stream to support local non-profits to develop anti-racist, equity-focused initiatives, new funding streams to support monthly or quarterly community-based events, a national web-based portal that someone's going to pay for, targeted funding for media and arts programs, and targeted and new funding for accessible supports.

There are lots of requests there. How would you prioritize them? What would be the top two or three?

I think that would probably be beyond the discussion you had, but did anybody have any idea of what the cost would be of requesting all this funding?

[Serah Gazali]

First, we're also taxpayers. We know how the costs of racism affect our lives. If you're asking me what to prioritize, I think that's another issue, but the core issue for us—for me personally and for the 53 individuals who attended the meeting—is our shared vision of Canada as a democratic, pluralistic, inclusive nation, and it's also about our identity as Canadians as a multicultural, egalitarian society.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Around that discussion of egalitarianism and inclusion, was there any discussion about whether it was appropriate to single out Islamophobia and Islam in the motion? Was there any feeling that this should have been broader? We brought a motion forward with an amendment to it that would have broadened that whole discussion, and it was rejected by the government. Was there any discussion within your dialogue that it's inappropriate to single out just one of these organizations or groups?

[Serah Gazali]

I think we're asking for the protection of rights for everybody.

We talked about Islamophobia based on the experiences of individuals who were attending and also based on the recent statistics from Canada that mentioned that Islamophobia is on the rise. It has increased to almost 60%. Muslims are the second most targeted group, after Jews. We have six strategies and laws to target anti-Semitism, but there's no talk about Islamophobia, although—

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Did you talk about a definition of Islamophobia? That's been a big part of our discussion. Did you come to any, or do you have one that you would use?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes. I think we like the definition of Islamophobia as proposed by the Ontario Human Rights Commission.

I wrote it here. They define Islamophobia discrimination as “...stereotypes, prejudice, fear or acts of hostility directed towards individual Muslims or followers of Islam in general”.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think that's a partial definition that they use, but thank you.

I have a question for you about—I'm running out of time, actually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have a little under a minute.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

You suggested that we need to review, change, and strengthen the laws against hate speech. Are you suggesting that we need to change our hate speech laws in this country? Is that one of the conclusions?

[Serah Gazali]

I think we need to come up with a particular definition for Islamophobia, and we should criminalize it. There's not enough time to talk about that, but originally I'm from Saudi Arabia. I fled Saudi Arabia because of my gender and I don't really identify as Muslim. However, when I talk about my experiences in Saudi Arabia under a particular regime, Wahhabism, it's always taken by outsiders as a monolithic Islam that applies to every Muslim, and that's not the truth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. I think you've run out of time.

I'll go to Jenny Kwan for the NDP.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank both of our witnesses for their presentation and the work they have done in bringing forward this report.

Just to clarify, in terms of the process with respect to this round table, Frog Hollow approached me and said that they were seeing the rise of discriminatory issues in our community. They asked if there was something we could do about that. As it happens, we were just embarking on this process of studying M-103, and I said, “Why don't we host a community round table and invite the community to share their experiences with respect to that?” That's how this round table came about. I wanted people to be clear about that.

The community—Frog Hollow, Kiwassa Community House, and other community partners—then went on to the process of inviting others to participate. They pretty well ran the show. They got a facilitator and got the whole process going.

I think one of the things that I'm particularly interested in, which you didn't have a chance to present in your testimony today, is the lived experiences of the people who attended the event and some of the stories that they shared with us around what they faced. I wonder whether you could share a couple of those stories with us today and explain how they relate to the recommendations that you have put forward before us.

[Narges Samimi]

Yes. I remember there was a woman of about my age who had some difficulties. She was attending PE classes, and her teacher approached her and said, “You should think of the limitations you have from wearing a hijab”, but she was so eager to learn and to do a lot of the sports that she didn't think about any limitations. She didn't think her head scarf would bring her limitations.

As a young Muslim woman, I don't think religion and faith and the way we dress should bring us limitations. I'm so proud of her that despite all the challenges and struggles and difficulties she had in her class and with her teacher, she still continues to do sports, to be very strong, and to be a great athlete.

Do you want to add something?