Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2017

[Serah Gazali]

Yes.

I think there is an issue. We've discussed it in the group. I also notice it because of my work with the community and my connections, and also because of my research. People who are visibly different—be it because of their accent, be it because of the way they are dressed, particularly for Muslims who are wearing hijabs, or be it because of their skin colour—will always tell me about experiences of racism. It could be direct. It could be acts of micro-aggression, such as being made to feel not welcome. Sometimes it could be direct verbal abuse, when they're called terrorists or somebody screams at them that they don't belong there.

This is part of what they deal with on a daily basis.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Hence I guess the story about the young woman who experienced the comments from her teacher about her hijab and about her ability to participate in the events in her physical education class really points to the need for education and awareness, even amongst the educators themselves.

I see in your recommendation that you're talking about the need for training. To that end, I gather that these would be the recommendations you've forwarded about where resources need to be put. That's within the context of a national strategy to address the issue of racism and religious discrimination. Am I correct in understanding that?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes.

[Narges Samimi]

It has to be within education programs and training, even throughout the government system.

[Serah Gazali]

It's important that the people who are in a position of power have this understanding. We sometimes get direct training about anti-oppression and anti-racism. We get it as racialized people. We don't need that training. We need the people who are dictating policies, the people who have power, to get that training.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That would be the need, then, for a national strategy in terms of resources being provided to each of the provinces. This work could be done, and everybody would have the opportunity to provide that training in the school system—for example, to the educators in our school system.

On the issue around discrimination impacting an individual, we know that discrimination is a learned behaviour. We know that it can have a lifelong impact on an individual. In that context, I see that you have a recommendation that deals with the issue of addressing the implications of discrimination for an individual in the long term in terms of their financial outlook and so on. Can you elaborate on that for me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Ms. Kwan; time's up.

Julie Dabrusin is next.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you both for your presentations. I like that you've brought in some stories of lived experience and what you heard at your round table.

Going through some of the recommendations you made, I notice you mentioned one in respect of federal funding, looking to see if the recipients were taking action against systemic discrimination. Was that basically what the recommendation was?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Some other witnesses have talked about using something similar to gender-based analysis and using that type of a lens. Is that what you're talking about?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes, exactly.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Can you give me an idea of what that would look like? If we were using that kind of a lens, what do you think it should take into account? What would it look like?

[Serah Gazali]

Well, it would cover so many things, but an example could be affirmative action to ensure that racialized people, minorities, and first nations people are part of the workplace. We were talking about making sure that all fund receivers also apply these policies. It has to be part of a financial strategy. We don't think of it as a waste of taxpayer money because we are taxpayers, and we have to benefit as well.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Have you talked at all about programs of community benefits—I'm sure you're well aware of how community benefits agreements work—under which you have certain percentages or targets of people who would be employed to develop skills in an area, and you can have it arranged in different ways?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Would that fit into what you're talking about?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes. We want measurable results, not symbolic acts.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I'm happy that you brought up measurable results, because the idea of disaggregated data and how to get proper data for what we're doing has been coming up a lot. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the Ontario action plan.

The Ontario plan advocates addressing racial iniquities in part through “better race-based disaggregated data, data that can be broken down so that we can further understand whether specific segments of the population are experiencing adverse impacts of systemic racism.”

Would you agree that's something we should—?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The plan also recommended having a “standard framework and guidelines to ensure data is collected consistently.” Would that fit within your recommendations?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you. It's good to see where things line up.

The International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, which is a United Nations convention, put out a report in September of this year, and they made several recommendations. You talked about strengthening the legal response to discrimination. The report contained a section on hate crimes and recommended steps to prevent them. They also recommended facilitating reporting by victims. What could the government do to facilitate reporting by victims of hate crimes?

[Serah Gazali]

They could do so many things.

First they could make sure that they don't need to report because they are not facing discrimination in the first place.

The second thing is to give them the tools to be empowered, to make sure they know their rights, and that means funding for organizations and agencies, perhaps within the workplace training, to inform people about their rights.

Third, they could be funding and giving resources to agencies receiving those complaints.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

As I understand it, there would be training for the recipient agencies, whatever they would be, and also funding to get information out to people so that they understand their rights. Is that right?

[Serah Gazali]

Yes, and they could perhaps criminalize hate speech and Islamophobia in the first place.