Evidence of meeting #96 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was maritime.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Henry Kim  Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum
Anita Price  Executive Director, Association of Nova Scotia Museums
Kim Reinhardt  General Manager, Nova Scotia Museum, Maritime Museum of the Atlantic
Tom Beasley  Vice Chair, Board of Trustees, Vancouver Maritime Museum
Duncan MacLeod  Curator, Vancouver Maritime Museum

8:45 a.m.

NDP

The Chair (Ms. Julie Dabrusin (Toronto—Danforth, Lib.)) NDP Pierre Nantel

Welcome to the 96th meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

We are continuing our study on the state of Canadian museums.

I'm pleased to welcome today two witnesses for our first panel: Mr. Henry Kim, director and chief executive officer of the Aga Khan Museum, and Ms. Anita Price, executive director of the Association of Nova Scotia Museums.

Each of you will have 10 minutes to make a presentation, and then we will go to a question and answer period.

We'll begin with Mr. Kim, please.

8:45 a.m.

Henry Kim Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum

Thank you very much.

I'd like to begin with a bit of personal background so you know who I am. I'm the director of the Aga Khan Museum. I've been the director since 2012. The museum opened in 2014, so as a museum we've been open for the last three and a half years.

My own personal background is that I'm actually a Greek archeologist. I've been an academic for most of my life. I was born in America. I did most of my professional career in the U.K. before coming out to Canada six years ago to take up this post, so my experience with museums is from the U.S., from the U.K. quite extensively, and of course now in coming into Canada as a new entrant into this wonderful ecosystem of culture.

The Aga Khan Museum is one of the newest museums in the country. It was opened in 2014, and its specialty is the art and culture of the Muslim world, which is a very unusual specialty. It is actually the only museum of Islamic art in all of North America. It was founded by His Highness the Aga Khan because he wanted to create a cultural institution that allowed people to understand the diversity of the arts and cultures of the Muslim world across 1,400 years. As a museum, we're here not simply to showcase wonderful works of art: in particular, we are here in order to tell people stories about the multitude of cultures that make up the Muslim world and how it connects the cultures that surround it across time and space.

As well, we are a very unusual museum because we're not simply about objects and visual arts. We're also about the performing arts. As a museum, we're a hybrid between objects and performances. The reason for this is very simple. When it comes to the arts, you cannot draw a distinction between what is visual and what is living. You have to look at all of it if you want to talk about the cultures from which these objects and these musical and literary forms come.

As a museum, we have I think many challenges in common with the museums you'll face across this country. Of course, being a new museum, we have the important challenge of trying to establish our identity in terms of what makes this museum unique among its peer groups, but also what makes it unique among international institutions.

Despite the fact that we're a museum based in Toronto, Canada, we're a museum that very much views itself as an international museum. Most of our exhibitions are drawn from objects and expertise from throughout the world. I'm very pleased to say that when it comes to the 15 exhibitions we've created, 10 of them, I believe, have been created with expertise coming from outside the country into Canada. I think this is very important, because when you're looking at an area that is absolutely new, you have to be part of a wider international community.

Establishing our identity has been one of the challenges. Also, of course, one of the major challenges has been marketing our museum and making those marketing dollars work. I think the one thing you'll hear time and time again from all smaller cultural institutions is that funding remains one of our greatest challenges.

Even though this museum was founded by and created with a gift that His Highness made to create the building and to gift the collections to the museum, we actually do fight for every single penny that we spend as part of our budget. The capital costs may have been part of a gift, but our operating costs really do come out of our fundraising efforts. Only 25% of our operating income comes from earned income, while 75% comes from fundraising and donations. I'm pleased to say that we've been able to achieve quite a good target for fundraising over these years, but when it comes to sustaining institutions of this nature, funding remains the primary challenge that we all face. I think this is emblematic of smaller museums throughout Canada.

Look at the smaller museums in this country. There are so many of them. When you count up the number of provincial, federal, and municipal major museums, there's just a handful. There are perhaps 20 that you would name within that colossal category of big museums. When it comes to smaller museums, there are hundreds, if not thousands. I believe I saw a statistic that talked about 2,000 smaller museums in this country.

What's important about these museums is that they actually do provide diversity, ideas, and stories and they also represent the many communities of which they are a part or in which they are situated.

All of these smaller institutions face an uphill battle when it comes to funding their operating expenses. Most of these museums receive very little government funding to operate, yet they have a very important role to play in the ecosystem of heritage and the arts within this country. I think one of the great things about these smaller museums is that you actually find that some great ideas are coming out of these smaller museums because you have this diversity and the multiplicity of talents. I look at my peer group within Toronto—the Textile Museum, the Gardiner Museum, the Bata Shoe Museum. These museums punch above their weight, in terms of coming up with ideas, but also drawing in international talent and ideas and collections into this country. They reflect their specialties and again, I think that one thing you will find with these smaller museums is that they are specialist museums. However, due to their specialities, they have focus and that focus is wonderful because, not only do they have focus in their subject matter, they also have focus within their communities since they do represent communities and they have wonderful followings. I think that the health of the smaller museum sector in this country is wonderful, in the sense that the ideas are there, but funding remains the biggest challenge.

As museums, I've mentioned that 75% of our operating budget comes from grants and from fundraising, with less than 1% of this coming from government funding of all sorts. Part of this is that, as a museum, we have to be in existence for either three or five years to even apply for government funding, in many cases. We're just starting to cross that threshold. One of the things I will say about government funding is that it does provide very important funds for museums to create these programs. The funding that is actually put forward is very much appreciated. As a criticism of government funding for smaller museums, it tends to be very much based on projects and the short term. When you have project-based and short-term funding, while it may help to enable these programs to take place, the one downside is that they do not help with the planning of a museum in the long term. It's short term. It's not growing a museum in its capacity or helping it fund itself in a long-term horizon.

If creativity is to be fostered, if it's to be nurtured in this country, and if good practice is to be perpetuated and even innovated, I do believe that the funding model for smaller museums and institutions needs to be looked at very hard. We need to look at ways in which funding can actually enable these museums to look at the long term and not simply at the project-based short term. I think that is going to be one of the biggest challenges as you look at how smaller museums work with government funding in the future.

Thank you very much.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Ms. Price.

8:55 a.m.

Anita Price Executive Director, Association of Nova Scotia Museums

Thank you, Madam Chair and committee members, for this opportunity on this most important subject that you have undertaken to study.

I'm going to provide a little context for the Association of Nova Scotia Museums and then bring forward what I feel are very specific examples of our work as it relates to the work you've undertaken with this committee.

The Association of Nova Scotia Museums—we refer to ourselves as ANSM—is a non-profit organization dedicated to work in support of the museums of Nova Scotia. Our vision is that all museums in Nova Scotia are valued by Nova Scotians, are sustainable, and operate according to established standards of excellence. Our mandate of the Association of Nova Scotia Museums, working in partnership with museums, communities, and supporters, is to encourage the development of professional best practices in Nova Scotia's museums, educate Nova Scotians about the value of museums and Nova Scotian stories, and act as a champion on behalf of museums in Nova Scotia.

ANSM is one of a network of provincial and territorial museum associations across Canada. These organizations fill essentially the same functions in their respective parts of the country, though each has evolved to address specific interests and issues within their region. Typically, the PTMAs are all involved in providing training and related supports to museum workers.

ANSM provides programs developed to provide foundational support in key areas of museum practice. A museum evaluation program addresses the importance of standards and accountability for museum organizations. An advisory service is focused primarily on collections management practices and provides a collections management system, which in turn populates the NovaMuse collections website. A museums studies program provides foundational education modules in key areas of museum and non-profit practice. This program is supported by specialized advanced learning opportunities. The ANSM brief to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage will be provided within the context and knowledge gained through the provision of these programs.

With respect to the museum evaluation program, in 2016 ANSM began the delivery of a new evaluation program for museums—MEP—in the province. This important new initiative seeks to advance standards of practice for museums. Evaluation of community museums had previously been undertaken as part of the accountability criteria for a provincial government operating grant program. The new process is built on best practice from similar programs, both nationally—Alberta—and internationally in the United States and United Kingdom.

MEP seeks robust information from the museums in a two-phase approach. Documentation submissions are required in key areas of museum practice. A documentation review is followed by an evaluation site visit conducted by a team of three evaluators with an average of 30 years' experience working in a museum or heritage field. Site evaluations build a deeper understanding of the museum organization's accountability and capacity. Information gathered in both phases of evaluation is distilled into a detailed report for each organization. An overarching report is prepared for the use of the provincial government and is shared as an information resource. I've included a full report in the information package that I have provided for you. This brief will share some of the findings of this report as relevant to the purpose of the committee's work.

The areas of activity reviewed in the evaluation process are: governance; management; collections management; facility; interpretation; community; and, marketing and revenue generation. Sixty-six community museums were evaluated, with an average overall score of 64.6%. While governance scores were reasonably stable at an average of 75.5%, the related management scores were averaged at 53.9%. This suggests a significant lack of procedural implementation in management practice from governance framework and policy. Support for museum workers, both paid and unpaid, in the form of HR procedures and training was seriously lacking in many of the organizations.

A worrisome trend observed as a result of the evaluations in 2016 was the number of museums with no personnel with any experience of the evaluation process. Twenty-eight of the 66 organizations evaluated reported that no one currently affiliated with the organization had been involved with the previous evaluation process or had been with the organization for more than five years. This represents 42% of the museums functioning with a substantial loss of corporate memory. Aside from the practical loss this represents in organizational functionality, it is almost catastrophic in terms of loss of knowledge relating to museum collections and their relevance.

This exemplifies the very real situation we face nationally as the baby boomer generation retires out of the workforce and increasingly from the corps of volunteers who initially established these heritage organizations in the 1960s through 1980s. Museums have traditionally relied very heavily on the goodwill, expertise, and passion of the individuals engaged in supporting their work. It could be argued that no museum is sustainable without the substantial goodwill contributions of its personnel. Succession planning is an important practice that few museums have the capacity to undertake. As strained resources have been stretched thinner, hiring young professionals to begin the professional development process of learning management and curatorial roles has faltered. Salary levels in museums are typically poor in comparison with national averages, in particular in relation to the complex skill sets required and time commitment needed beyond regular work hours.

There is a profound need for a national training strategy for museum workers in Canada. We must do a better job of providing training support in a manner accessible to all museum personnel. As the old guard steps back from their custodial role of Canadian heritage, a new generation must be supported and given the tools and knowledge they need to carry museums forward and be the accountable, effective public organizations Canadians expect them to be.

Standards of practice are vital for museums. As service organizations operating in the public trust, museums typically receive high marks in surveys seeking public impressions on their relevance and importance to society, yet museums are often operating in a severely under-resourced manner that does little to ensure that standards of practice are in place or adhered to. Many museums serve as vital community-focused centres, and are effective organizations in providing a rich, complex service to society as an understanding of our world today within the context of our shared history. The community engagement area of evaluation had an overall average of 52%, which is a weak showing for this most important part of museum function. The community museums, which scored well overall, typically showed strong results in community engagement. There is likely no coincidence in the relationship between an organizational understanding of and commitment to community service and strength in operational functionality and adherence to standards of practice.

On collections management and NovaMuse, a key area of practical support for community museums in Nova Scotia has been the provision of an advisory service for 12 years. This service rose from a grassroots initiative in the province that recognized a collective need for collections management software systems and related training, technical support, and equipment. Collectively, community museums could leverage public funding to support the shared need much more effectively than they could individually. This service is a strong example of cost-effective shared resources supported by professional standards.

The service has evolved over time to provide public access to collections information for 50-plus community museums in Nova Scotia. Over 300,000 collections records for primarily social history-related artifacts are publicly accessible through the NovaMuse website. This website is an interactive tool through which the public can engage with collections information by making their own contributions to artifact information as well as build their own online collections.

Other provinces and territories are following the Nova Scotian model and moving toward shared collections systems with public access capacity. Canadians have an expectation to access information resources using information technology. Museums have a responsibility to meet this public access expectation, particularly in relation to robust and accurate information about collections and their relevance. We can do more with shared resources but need the fundamental understanding and flexibility within federal funding programs to support the public use needs of Canadians in this digital age. This work is fundamental to the museums' public service role in society, and federal foundational support is key to effectively moving forward.

As an example, ANSM's Canada 150 project, “Touchstones”, was a three-phase initiative designed to engage the public in the selection of artifacts representative of Nova Scotia's role in the evolution of Canada. The first phase involved museums contributing to the NovaMuse website, encouraging their followers through social media to select artifacts from their collections. The second phase was a distillation, or curation, of the public selections by grade 11 history students to 150 representative artifacts—

The second phase was a distillation, or curation, of the public's selection by grade 11 history students to 150 representative—

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I'm just going to jump in quickly—I'm sorry. You're at your 10 minutes right now, so if you can try to wrap it up, that would be good.

9:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Association of Nova Scotia Museums

Anita Price

Thanks. I'll just head to the social relevance of museums, which is the conclusion. Is that okay?

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

It is if you can do it in 20 seconds. You can perhaps bring it out further during the questions.

9:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Association of Nova Scotia Museums

Anita Price

Right.

In conclusion, the federal government provides critically important support for Canada's museums. This must evolve to better support these vital national resources in the manner in which Canadians of the 21st century expect they will serve our society. We commend the work of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage in undertaking this study on the state of museums in Canada. We urge the conclusion of your work with a result that not only provides an overview of the state of museums but delivers strong recommendations for building relevant, stable, and vital museums in service to all Canadians.

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We're now going to go to our question-and-answer period. The first round is seven minutes for the question and the answer included. Some of the questions you may be getting will be in French, so you have earpieces to help you with translation, if you both can bring those out.

Ms. Dhillon has the floor first. You have seven minutes.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Thank you to our witnesses for being here this morning. I'll direct my questions to both of you, so anyone can answer if you see fit.

Heritage institutions should ensure that their exhibits meet the tastes of their clientele. What methods are you using to assess visitor satisfaction?

9:05 a.m.

Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum

Henry Kim

You're absolutely right that when it comes to creating exhibitions and events, it is absolutely vital to judge what our visitor response has been. We actually do incorporate a number of different methods to judge visitor satisfaction, the most important of which is simply surveying people immediately after their visit or the event. We have a screening program in which we provide cards, basically, for people to fill out with regard to their satisfaction. We also do customer surveys that involve having members of staff ask people questions. As well, we do bring in external organizations, such as the University of Toronto and a group called the G6 within Toronto, which is a group of museums that collectively look at marketing and visitor statistics. They bring in their own surveyors.

I'd say there are probably at least five or six different methods of surveying our visitors to find out whether their experience or the content was what they were looking for.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Okay. You mentioned before that there are hundreds and thousands of small museums all over Canada. What makes your museum different? It's a newly established one, from what I can understand. What makes yours different from all the hundreds and thousands that already exist?

9:05 a.m.

Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum

Henry Kim

I don't think there's much that differentiates us. We face exactly the same challenges all these other museums face, and that is, how do you get people though the door? How do you get the attention from the media and the press for what you do? No matter what you spend on marketing, the number one way to get people through the door is word of mouth as well as reports from the press. I think in that way we're no different from other museums.

What makes us different, of course, is our specialty area, but even with that specialty area the fundamentals remain. What is our unique selling point? What's our brand? What's our messaging? How do you actually get people of different communities to come in? For us, our biggest challenge has been to define “communities”. When you look at a city as diverse as Toronto, there are so many different communities. Not only do you want to have an all-encompassing, all-embracing wider community, but there are target communities that are actually very important to us. Defining and nurturing those communities has been one of our biggest challenges, because it takes, simply, resources, and it takes manpower. The will is there, but it takes time.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Have you, Mr. Kim or Ms. Price, seen a difference in museum attendance over the years? Has it decreased?

9:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Association of Nova Scotia Museums

Anita Price

For Nova Scotia we've seen, actually, a significant increase in museum attendance in the province in the last couple of years. That may or may not be coincidentally tied to an increase in tourism figures. I would say 90% of the museums that have reported to me on their attendance have said that they have been really pleased with an increase in visitors.

9:10 a.m.

Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum

Henry Kim

From my point of view, it's hard for me to say, because I have very little data to talk about. I will say that when it comes to getting visitors through the door, good programming will always be the starting point. If you come up with a great idea, people do come. That, I think, is one of the essences of museum management. How do you get those ideas out there, and then how do you get the media, and bloggers, and social media to comment on it? That's what drives the attendance.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

I think there has been a great increase in tourism and, since you both see that, how would you take advantage of that to increase donations or sponsorships for your museums?

9:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Association of Nova Scotia Museums

Anita Price

Well we are an organization that supports museums, so we don't actually operate a museum. We see the greatest strengths for museums as those who are very actively engaged with their community and have strong community partnerships. Those partnerships that build on their programming offerings typically speak to their relevance within community.

Tourists who are coming from out of the province or out of their community are the icing on the cake. The Aga Khan Museum is probably an exception to this, but most museums will tell you that their bread and butter visitation are the people within their geographic area. They're close partners. If every person who is walking through your door of your museum is asking themselves what this mean to them...those museums engaged with their communities build strong partnerships and their programming from that relevance, and are the ones that have the strongest future. There is no coincidence that those museums are typically the ones that are more stable financially.

9:10 a.m.

Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum

Henry Kim

I certainly agree with the point that tourism is the icing on the cake.

For us, the majority of our visitors are people who live within the GTA. Tourism helps, but I certainly wouldn't call it the driving force for us. I think that's one thing that does separate a lot of the smaller museums from big museums. Big museums tend to benefit from tourism far greater because they are part of the check-box list of what you do when you go to this city or that city.

When you look at smaller museums—and again there are exceptions, there are small museums that are very much there for the tourist trade—most small museums have to rely upon building their community partnerships. That's what provides the stability, and I think also the growth in the future.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

So—

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I think you have forty-five seconds.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Okay.

It's important to save a little money. We need money to carry on these institutions.

Do you have volunteers, and would you offer them internship so that these volunteers can also use that credit? It would help you financially as well.

9:10 a.m.

Director and Chief Executive Officer, Aga Khan Museum

Henry Kim

As a museum, I have 60 staff. I have over 400 volunteers. I think that's what you'll find as typical of most museums.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Okay, thank you.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We are now to Mr. Van Loan.