Canadian Heritage Committee on March 22nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I see others in the same situation.

We're just going to take a moment here.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

If I speak French, it will give my English-speaking counterparts a chance to hear the English interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Yes, I am hearing the interpretation.

It sounds like the Zoom connection. Okay, folks. We're going to have to take a few seconds.

We'll return to your time. You have a little under two minutes left, Monsieur Champoux. We'll get back to you when—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think I should get all of my time back since they didn't hear my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Can we ask the interpreter to check again?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Scott, in the meantime, Mr. Champoux is asking if he gets his time back in full, which I think he should.

I'm happy to interpret if you want, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

It doesn't necessarily work that way, Mr. Housefather. I'll be with you in one second.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you for offering, Mr. Housefather.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Does everybody hear that? I need to be sure, because we're having a difference between Zoom and what I am hearing.

Okay, great. We're all back.

Monsieur Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll start over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Go ahead, sir.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a question for the BCE representatives.

A few days ago, the president and CEO of Quebecor, Mr. Péladeau, appeared before the committee. Afterwards, he told reporters that the bill was an attempt to regulate the “unregulatable”.

Do you agree with that, Mr. Daniels?

Do you think it's possible to pass legislation that regulates the digital giants while protecting Canadian traditional and online broadcasters in such a way that they can be competitive?

[Jonathan Daniels]

Thank you. I appreciate getting the.... Now I understand the question. I apologize for my lack of French.

What I'd say is no, we don't agree. The short of it is that levelling the playing field by having foreign providers contribute into funds like the CMF, which can then decide how to pay that money out, will ensure that you achieve CanCon. Sorry, I'm using an acronym. I mean Canadian content production. We think that's a more effective way to bring that in. You can bring them into the system in order to have a level playing field.

Where I do agree is that there are a bunch of rules that can be streamlined as we bring them in, and have greater flexibility to allow everyone to specialize and compete in different areas, rather than dictating everything we have to do today.

We can achieve that by bringing in the foreign providers and making them contribute to the system. Quite simply, if they have to pay money into a fund like the CMF, they are going to make sure they get [Technical difficulty—Editor] pulling that money out. That's how companies work. If you have to pay into something [Technical difficulty—Editor] benefit by pulling out. That, we believe, is the kind of model you can achieve.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Daniels.

Mr. Chair, do I have a few seconds left to ask the same question of Mr. Bernhard from Friends of Canadian Broadcasting?

I would like to hear his opinion.

[Daniel Bernhard]

I'll answer in English, just to be quicker.

I agree with Bell that Mr. Péladeau's comments are not accurate. We believe these foreign streaming services can and should be regulated.

We've been having this discussion since 2014, and we're still having this discussion. Meanwhile, technology has advanced. We are not talking about all kinds of other activities that are happening in the media ecosystem, because we're stuck deciding whether or not Netflix should pay. This is the simplest of all the questions, and we should just go forward with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Bernhard.

Ms. McPherson, you have two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to take a closer look at some of the local news. Like many people, I have some serious concerns about the current and future implications on local news. I'd like to talk to the Unifor folks about their proposal. I know they're supportive of a local news fund and they have talked about a larger amount being allocated. Could they please comment on what they would be proposing for that?

[Katha Fortier]

I'll ask Howard Law to respond, as he's been working closely with this.

[Howard Law]

Thank you for the question.

Earlier in the proceedings, Mr. Strati, from Bell, remarked that the business model supporting local news has been failing. It has failed.

Collectively, the major broadcasters have had an 8% loss margin for the last eight years, and it's not getting better. It's going to get worse. We've had layoffs. We've had less news coverage. We are in a state of total crisis in terms of local news, so that's just a fact.

In terms of what we're proposing for [Technical difficulty—Editor] advocate for better funding for local news. The CRTC, back in the early teens, after the financial crisis, instituted for three years something called the local programming improvement fund, LPIF, which basically put up an emergency fund of $100 million per year for the broadcasting of local news. What we're proposing is something similar, but as a permanent feature of the ecosystem.

As we advocated, local news is the priority cultural good in the broadcasting system, and it's the most underfunded. Given that there will be, by the minister's estimate, up to $800 million a year as an injection into the broadcasting system...which is shrinking, of course. The pie is shrinking, but this will greatly increase it.

There is room, in our view, to dedicate a steady and sufficient stream of funding to local news that would be available not just to independent television [Technical difficulty—Editor] through a very small fund, but to all local news operations in the country, so that we won't lose this essential feature of our Canadian broadcasting system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to Mr. Shields, for five minutes, please.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will begin with Bell. We know news does not make money; advertising makes money, and advertising supports the news. The federal government is spending 80% of its taxpayer-funded advertising in foreign big companies outside of Canada. If that money was spent in our own country, because it's advertising that makes the news work, what is your response to that, Mr. Daniels?

[Jonathan Daniels]

Of course, we would encourage everyone.... We think we provide a great product, and we would support and would like to have advertising on it.

Maybe Alain could talk a little more about what's going on with news in terms of the revenues right now, but we would certainly welcome any and every opportunity to provide good...or bring in the viewership to news.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

But when you're saying that, you're saying you would like taxpayers' money to support news. What I am suggesting is, why aren't you asking for that 80% of taxpayers' money that the federal government is now spending with federal money to foreign...? Why aren't you asking for that 80%, rather than asking for more money to support local news?

[Jonathan Daniels]

I think all we're saying is.... My reference was to advertising on our network, rather than a news fund, so I would just say that we wish to be attractive in terms of a product to bring eyeballs and so on—and we do so successfully, as you've heard. We've seen our viewership in news go up, but because of the nature of what's going on generally in terms of advertising and more directed...the dollars haven't followed through in that area.

We still believe we have a very attractive product for advertisers.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Yes, I got that, but you're asking for more taxpayers' money, when you've lost taxpayers' money going somewhere else.

Going to Unifor—