Canadian Heritage Committee on May 6th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

That's correct.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The debate is now adjourned.

As we pointed out earlier, that adjourns the motion and the debate itself. Now we go back to the other regularly scheduled programming, which was of course clause-by-clause consideration.

I see a lot of hands up. Since we have done a reset here, I'm going to ask that everyone put their hands down. Otherwise, I'm going to assume there's a point of order at some point. We're now proceeding to clause-by-clause.

Mr. Aitchison, go ahead.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'll make the point of order, because I want to be sure that I truly understand what just happened there. Mr. Housefather moved to adjourn debate on Ms. Dabrusin's amendment. By doing that, did it actually adjourn debate and even a vote on Ms. Harder's original amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

No. It just adjourned the entire debate. We started off with a motion that amended a motion. Then we picked it up.... We brought back the debate we had earlier. Now we've discussed Ms. Dabrusin's amendment, which was what we were debating in the last meeting. We started the debate again. What Mr. Housefather moved was the adjournment of the debate, which includes the motion and all that wrapped up within it, and now we go back, as I mentioned earlier, to regularly scheduled programming, which would be—

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Chair, a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Carry on, sir.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Either the interpretation was not good or there was some confusion. What I understood when I voted was that Mr. Housefather had asked to adjourn debate on Ms. Dabrusin's motion in amendment, not to adjourn debate on Ms. Harder's motion as amended by Ms. McPherson. Could you check?

One thing is clear to me: I did not vote to adjourn debate on Ms. Harder's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

If you'll recall, our clerk, Madam Belmore, did say that, as a result of the vote, it would adjourn the debate of the motion. She did say that, Mr. Rayes. I hope that made it clear at the time.

Go ahead, Mr. Rayes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

No, Mr. Chair. I would like to see the “blues” if necessary, but Mr. Housefather moved to adjourn debate on Ms. Dabrusin's motion in amendment. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I want you to check, because that was my understanding and I voted accordingly.

Perhaps Mr. Housefather can confirm exactly what he said. When the clerk repeated that it was about adjourning the debate on the motion, I understood that it was about what Mr. Housefather himself had requested, which was to adjourn the debate on Ms. Dabrusin's motion in amendment. So can we allow Mr. Housefather to confirm what he said?

I do not think I am mistaken in saying that I did hear Mr. Housefather say that he wanted to end debate on Ms. Dabrusin's motion in amendment. He wanted to ask to adjourn debate on Ms. Dabrusin's motion in amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

That's right. He did say that, but as a consequence, the standing orders will call for an adjournment of the debate that also includes the motion, which is why our clerk said that to begin with.

Since I'm fairly easy to get along with, would you like Mr. Housefather to respond?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I'm happy to do so.

I can do so in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Sure.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Rayes, you're quite right that I moved to adjourn the debate on Ms. Dabrusin's amendment. However, just afterwards, before the vote, the clerk said that this motion to adjourn the debate on the amendment would adjourn the debate on the motion. Since you voted against my motion—and I guess you would have voted against anything—I don't see what difference that makes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'm sorry. Did I hear Mr. Champoux say he has a point of order?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes.

Mr. Chair, I also understood that the vote was to adjourn the debate on Ms. Dabrusin's motion in amendment.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

So I wasn't the only one who understood that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Hold on. Folks, I think what the clerk said clearly was that we are debating as a consequence....

These are the rules by which we govern ourselves. I'm sorry. She said it quite clearly. Now we have to move on to the other stuff, which is, of course, our clause-by-clause consideration. I trust that's good with everybody now.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair. I would like some clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

One moment, please. I have Mr. Shields on a point of order, and then I have Mr. Rayes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Mr. Chairman, just to clarify, I understand what you're saying, but the will of the group as the motion was made was for a vote on the motion of Ms. Dabrusin's amendment.

Did the clerk have the possibility of saying that it was a vote on Ms. Dabrusin's amendment? Did she have the possibility to say that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I will ask the clerk to repeat what she said prior to the vote.

[The Clerk]

I did clarify to the committee, because there is no option to adjourn debate on the amendment without adjourning debate on the motion. That's why I clarified.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Mr. Chair, I guess we totally didn't understand that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Shields, wait one second.

Once again, folks, can we not just randomly speak across the board? I might be a stickler about that, but I think it's for a good reason.

Mr. Shields, had you finished?