Evidence of meeting #33 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was justice.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I would beg to differ with the premise of your question.
Many experts have come out in Quebec and in English Canada saying that Bill C-10 was not an infringement on freedom of speech or an attack on the charter. In fact, we now have a statement by the independent civil servants of the Department of Justice saying exactly that.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
They're not, though, acknowledging those experts who have worked in this field. There is no way forward. What you're doing is pitting one side against the other instead of finding a collective solution that will work for everyone.
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I recognize that there are people who believe there should be no regulation whatsoever when it comes to the Internet; that there should be no regulation on cultural issues, on issues such as hate speech or on fair remuneration of media, and part of the Canadian population agrees with them as well. I recognize that.
My government and I disagree with that point of view. We believe there should be regulation on all of these elements, and so do many other countries. I have had conversations with counterparts in Germany, in France, in the U.K., in Finland, in Ukraine—
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Mr. Guilbeault, I'm sorry. I have to leave it at that. I'm sure there are other countries you wish to speak of, but right now I don't have that time to put into it.
Now, folks, we are into the second round. As you know from experience, I like to be more strict on the second round because we run out of time. However, the minister has given us one hour. I want to get every party in here. I want to get all four caucuses in on this conversation.
Mr. Minister, in order to do that, I might exceed the time by about two or three, or perhaps four minutes. I hope you're okay with that. Thank you very much for the thumbs up.
Ms. Harder, you have the floor for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you.
Minister, let's just have a bit of fun. I know you're on the hot seat, so we'll just take it easy here for a moment.
There were three movies that were graded by the Canadian Audio-Visual Certification Office, CAVCO, which of course rates the Canadian-ness of videos. One of the videos was called Ultimate Gretzky. It's a film that showcases Canada's very own Wayne Gretzky and his career in the NHL.
Is this a Canadian film?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
As you rightly pointed out, there is an organization whose mandate it is to do this.
Conservative
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
It's not up to the Minister of Canadian Heritage or any other politician to make that determination.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay. I was just curious as to whether you knew.
Canadian Bacon has also been given a rating. It stars Canadian actor John Candy. It was filmed in Canada and it's about Canada.
Is that a Canadian film?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I love that film, but again, it's not up to the Canadian Minister of Heritage or any other politician to make those determinations.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay. I know. I just thought that because it falls under your department maybe you would know.
The third film is called Who Killed Gandhi? It's an investigative documentary of the death of Gandhi.
Is it a Canadian film?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
You keep asking the same questions. Unfortunately, the answer will be the same.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay.
Interestingly enough, Ultimate Gretzky isn't; Canadian Bacon isn't; but Who Killed Gandhi? is.
Minister, you keep talking about wanting to protect Canadian content and further Canadian culture, yet I just listed two films, Ultimate Gretzky and Canadian Bacon, that should be classified as Canadian content. They're not.
You're not even able to identify that, so what confidence should Canadians have in your ability to legislate this?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
It's important to remember that the committee is sovereign, and if the committee identifies a potential problem, and we're a minority government, the—
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
—committee can introduce elements to correct the bill.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
There are two sections in this bill that were of significance: proposed subsection 2(2.1), which protects individuals; and proposed section 4.1, which protects their content.
Proposed subsection 2(2.1), on individuals, was kept in, but the section that protects their content, what they post online, was taken out. Therefore, they no longer have that protection. Why?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
You might have heard, like I did a few minutes ago, Justice Deputy Minister Drouin answer that question very clearly, specifying that the powers given to the CRTC are very narrow and targeted and don't have to do with content moderation.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay.
Will the CRTC then be given the responsibility under Bill C-10, the power to regulate the algorithms used by social media platforms to decide what type of content that people can and cannot see on their Facebook feeds or the information that appears on Google or YouTube?
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Chair, may I be allowed to answer the question?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Okay, folks. Let me just pause for one moment.
Yes, you can. I'm loath to get in between two people who have a spirited discussion. However, can I just remind the committee of one thing? You can do a monologue or you can ask questions. Both are acceptable and both flow rather well, but when you try to do both, it becomes very problematic.
Ms. Harder, I'm not accusing you of doing that. I'm just saying that sometimes in the spirit of questions back and forth we tend to talk over each other. I only ask that you police yourselves to a point where we get questions, answers and comments, because we are televised and a lot of people are watching.
Ms. Harder, once again you have the floor.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I just wonder if the CRTC will have the power to regulate algorithms.