Canadian Heritage Committee on May 19th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 36 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Pursuant to the order of reference of February 16 and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, May 10, the committee resumes consideration of Bill C-10, an act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other acts.

As I mentioned earlier, when we left we were with G-11.1.

I see there is a great deal of interest on the board. There are hands up.

Ms. Dabrusin, go ahead, please.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I had already moved G-11.1, so I was just going to speak in favour of amendment G-11.1.

I'll put forward that this amendment will restrict the CRTC's powers in respect of social media companies to three things, which would be finding out what the Canadian revenues are for the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Ms. Dabrusin, I'm sorry, but just before you finish, I didn't have a chance to say, for all those watching on television or the Internet through our web page, that we are doing clause-by-clause on Bill C-10. I forgot to mention that this is clause-by-clause.

I'm sorry for the interruption, Ms. Dabrusin. Carry on, please.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

It's about declaring what the companies are making in Canada, requiring financial contributions to cultural production funds in Canada, and making Canadian creators of programs discoverable.

That is why G-11.1 is being proposed.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Louis.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to offer my support to this. I'm looking forward to getting back to it. I think G-11.1 strikes the balance. I'd like to hear from others, work together and get this done in a judicious manner.

That's all I wanted to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Rayes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to ask the committee something. I don't know whether it is in keeping with procedure, but I am sure you could enlighten me.

We have met a number of times over the past few weeks. Clearly, the committee came to an impasse after the initially proposed section 4.1 was deleted. We had an opportunity to hear from expert witnesses, following our unanimous decision to summon them. We even had an opportunity to hear from both ministers. The Minister of Justice produced the requested document. Is it the minister's statement or an explanatory document? We do not agree on this. Be that as it may, we are all here to continue the clause–by–clause consideration of the bill.

Since the Liberals rejected the clause of the bill that proposed adding section 4.1 to the Broadcasting Act, our work has not been going well. I would like to know how to proceed to move a motion that would help us overcome this impasse, in a spirit of cooperation. We have already sent the motion to the clerk.

Can I move the motion right away, before we continue the debate on amendment G–11.1? If not, will you give me an opportunity to do so as soon as we have finished voting on the amendment, whether it is adopted or rejected?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Rayes.

Since G-11.1 is now moved, as Ms. Dabrusin pointed out, we are in the middle of that debate. If you wish to move a motion—I'm assuming it's about Bill C-10—that certainly falls within the purview of the committee to examine, but we have to dispense with what's on the table right now. That would be G-11.1, as far as the amendment is concerned.

In saying that, would you like to talk about G-11.1?

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

No, Mr. Chair. I just want you to confirm that, as soon as we have voted on amendment G–11.1, you will give me the floor, so that I can move my motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Yes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you.

So I will give others an opportunity to speak to the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Ms. Ien.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was just going to express support for G-11.1 and say that I'm looking forward to getting this work done.

That's all for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Champoux has the floor.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to propose a subamendment to amendment G–11.1.

In proposed paragraph 9.1(1)(i.1), which talks about “the discoverability of Canadian creators of programs”, I would like to replace “Canadian creators of programs” with “Canadian programs”. So it would say “the discoverability of Canadian programs”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Where it says “Canadian creators of programs”, you want to replace it with “Canadian programs”. Is that correct?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Now, folks, as you know—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, there is another element of text I would like to add under my subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

At the end of the text the amendment proposes to add after line 10 on page 8, I would like to add the following:

Interpretation (3.2) for greater certainty, paragraph (1)(i.1) shall be construed and applied in a manner that is consistent with the freedom of expression enjoyed by users of social media services provided by online undertakings.

I have in hand the English and French texts, which I can send to the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

With your patience, sir, what I'm going to do is break away from this for just a moment. We're going to suspend for a short period. I just want to talk to our legislative clerk to make sure.... Since the second part of what you said, proposed subsection 9.1(3.2), is a bit more substantial, I'm just going to check on it.

We will suspend for just a few moments, folks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I call the meeting back to order.

I believe our clerk has now sent out the information for the subamendment. Just to remind everybody, we are still on government amendment G-11.1, as put forward by Ms. Dabrusin, but we now have a proposal for a subamendment from the Bloc, from Mr. Champoux. That information has been sent out. Everything is in order, and we can commence debate.

Mr. Champoux.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I wanted to say that the text the clerk sent us does not contain everything Mr. Champoux proposed. I missed the first part of Mr. Champoux's proposal, but what I received by email is not exactly the same as what Mr. Champoux said.