Canadian Heritage Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, we discussed income averaging with ACTRA representatives. I thought it was a very interesting discussion, but we had very little time to delve into it. ACTRA maintains that averaging artists' income over four years would be a solution.

I'd like to discuss this with Ms. Beaulieu, who also represents a significant number of freelancers on the Quebec side.

Ms. Beaulieu, if one of the following two formulas were preferable, which would it be? On the one hand, ACTRA advocates spreading artists' income over four years. On the other hand, Quebec's legislation currently includes a tax measure for artists in that province. For an artist who has had a very good year, this means purchasing an annuity that allows them to average out their income over several months. I think it's over the next 10 months.

Quebec's legislation will be reviewed soon. Isn't that a suggestion that could be made to both levels of government? What do you think?

[Maryse Beaulieu]

Mr. Champoux, I would say that I prepared mainly to talk about the Status of the Artist Act, which is a federal statute. Since we are subject to that legislation rather than to S‑32.1, let's just say that we are still in the process of asking for access to collective bargaining, and this has been the case for many, many years.

You already have a new mechanism that is much more sophisticated than what we are asking for, which is the opportunity to have collective agreements with broadcasters.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

As we have very little time, perhaps I'll venture a question to the representatives of the Canadian Artists' Representation.

Ms. Britski or Mr. Beveridge, do you have an opinion on this? From your point of view, does one option seem more appealing than the other?

[Karl Beveridge]

April, go ahead.

[April Britski]

Income averaging or something has been proposed in Quebec, which I'm not....

[Karl Beveridge]

It's basically that you're able to set aside a high income to another year, when you might have a low income, versus the four-year income averaging.

I don't know enough about it to really say which one works better. You'd have to talk to a tax expert, I think, to find out which of the two schemes might be of most benefit to an artist. I wouldn't know off the top of my head.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Britski and Mr. Beveridge.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

The final round for two and a half minutes goes to Mr. Julian. Thank you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all our witnesses. I'd like to come back to Ms. Roy.

I did ask a question earlier about some of the elements around tax incentives, income adjusting, gaps in the EI program, even a guaranteed livable basic income. Do you think social media artists would find these things useful in that sector as well?

[Oorbee Roy]

If I'm being honest, I'm not sure how I really feel about a universal basic income. I'm inclined to say it's not necessary, but having the income averaging over the course of several years would be beneficial. I'm saying that as somebody who has been a freelancer in some respect since I left Wall Street, and I do think that including digital creators.... There's still a lot to learn, and maybe learning a little bit more about what our needs are would be helpful and important, but that was the one thing that stood out to me.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks very much.

I'd like to go back to ACTRA now, to Mr. Gordey and Madame Blanchette.

You have a number of artists who are social media artists but also members of ACTRA. Mr. Michael is one who was just mentioned. I want to get a sense of how many members of ACTRA are active on the social media front—in other words, earn their income from social media platforms. With regard to the recommendations you made today, are they conceived with social media artists in mind? We've heard some testimony that they would be useful in both areas.

[Keith Martin Gordey]

Lisa, do you know how many there are?

[Lisa Blanchette]

It's really hard for us to give you a number, Mr. Julian, because we don't have an agreement for social media. We don't have something that I could point to and say that we represent this number of workers.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Michael is not an anomaly. There are other social media artists who are part of ACTRA.

[Keith Martin Gordey]

To answer your question, I think it's an evolving situation, and rapidly evolving.

The equivalent of ACTRA in the United States is SAG-AFTRA. They've just promulgated an influencer agreement in an effort to protect and cover people who make their living in that regard.

Darcy, I guess you're an influencer. It's something that ACTRA is looking at. It's brand new stuff in many ways. I think there's room in ACTRA for influencers—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

We have to leave it there, Mr. Gordey.

Mr. Julian, thank you for that round.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today for a wonderful discussion. Thank you for your time and for bringing your expertise to this study.

I will now release you from your duties and you can carry on with the rest of your day. Thank you for your time.

Committee members, if you can stay on the line, we will do a very quick bit of committee business. We're not going to suspend. We're going to carry on.

Thank you to our witnesses.

[Keith Martin Gordey]

Thank you so much.

[Karl Beveridge]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Committee members, we have a couple of items of committee business that we need to get through. I think we can do this very quickly in the last seven minutes that we have here.

First, our subcommittee met on March 7. You've all received the report.

If there are no questions or comments, I would entertain a motion to approve the subcommittee report.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I so move.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Are there any comments or questions, or shall I call the vote?

(Motion agreed to)

The motion carries.

The second item is that witness lists have been provided for upcoming studies. You will have received that, both those from the Department of Canadian Heritage and those from the Library of Parliament. I suppose, Madam Clerk, that's for information purposes.

I will turn the floor over to you, Madam Clerk.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Aimée Belmore]

I will need some direction as to whether or not we're inviting the people who were suggested by the Department of Canadian Heritage. If everyone is in agreement, then I'll invite them, and if not, then it will just be the Department of Canadian Heritage.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

What is the will of the committee?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

What were the options?

[The Clerk]

The Department of Canadian Heritage made the request that two organizations would accompany them. I believe it's the Canada Council for the Arts and the CIRB, but the email was distributed. The question is whether those groups would accompany the Department of Canadian Heritage in their testimony on March 30 for one hour, or whether the committee wants to hear from the Department of Canadian Heritage by themselves.