Canadian Heritage Committee on April 11th, 2024

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Was it email, text message, Zoom?

[Mirko Bibic]

No. Generally speaking, the individuals affected had individual meetings, either in person or by video, so that we could communicate the news and details around the separation packages, continued benefits and career transition services where applicable.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Can you please clarify, after Bell got all this money, why these layoffs, firings, still happened? It's quite mind-boggling, and a lot of my colleagues, pretty much all of them, have asked that question without any answer.

What was the justification?

[Mirko Bibic]

Let's focus first on Bell Media. There are massive losses in conventional TV of $180 million. Our news service loses $40 million a year. Advertising revenues declined $140 million in 2023 over 2022. We need to adjust to those circumstances.

The Canadian economy is not faring very well.

In terms of advertising, advertising has shifted to digital channels. Even 70% of the federal government's advertising budget has gone to digital. That's $48 million. That's just an example to show you that even the federal government is driving its advertising dollars to digital. We've had to adjust, and we've had to pivot towards digital as well.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Bell is a telecom and media conglomerate that generates in Canada 15 times the annual revenue of Netflix, which, unlike Bell, can't use its streaming services to sell home and mobile Internet.

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, your argument so far has not made any sense throughout the entire testimony.

[Mirko Bibic]

If the macroeconomic circumstances that we operate in are extremely difficult, if the regulatory environment is particularly difficult, if competition has increased—which is a great thing for consumers, but that also means that prices are going down—every company will have to adjust to that kind of environment.

Netflix is eight times bigger than Bell. Disney is seven times bigger than Bell. Amazon is 63 times bigger than Bell. They compete directly against us and generate more revenues in Canada in streaming than we do, and they have to contribute nothing to the Canadian media industry. That's what we should be talking about, actually.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

We don't give money to those companies; we give money to Bell. It seems like Bell expects Ottawa to go back to the old bargain of protecting them from competition, tilting the rules in their favour and just continuing with that monopoly.

[Mirko Bibic]

No, not at all. We welcome competition and, because we compete against Disney, Netflix, Amazon and Apple and because those companies derive billions of dollars in revenue in Canada, we say that they, too, should be required to contribute to the same extent as Canadian media companies are. I mean, if we don't confront this reality, there will be no Canadian media industry in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. We are over time.

I'm going to go to Mr. Champoux now.

Martin, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Bibic, since I only have two and a half minutes, I will try to be quick and clear with my questions.

Bell received regulatory relief from the CRTC that resulted in savings—correct me if I'm wrong—to the tune of $40 million. During the same year, nearly 6,100 positions were cut at Bell in various departments. I know it's a big company, but still.

Bell says it's investing in news. However, we see that in some regions of Quebec, particularly in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean, Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke, the quality of local news is much lower than it was a few years ago.

And yet Bell continues to ask for regulatory relief to create a level playing field with the web giants.

Given your recent decisions, how can you guarantee that this relief will not serve, once again, to weaken journalistic coverage in the regions of Quebec and the dissemination of Quebec culture in French in Quebec?

If I'm not mistaken, that is an important mandate for Bell, which operates radio and television stations in Quebec.

[Mirko Bibic]

First of all, our main objective is to provide service to our audience and consumers, and that's what we do. We are producing more and more news, much more than the regulatory minimums imposed by the CRTC. That should give you some confidence.

We're producing 150% more news than we're required to. Our specialty stations, such as BNN Bloomberg and CP24, also produce more, 300% more than what is required. As I mentioned earlier, we built the Noovo Info service in Quebec from the ground up and we've turned the Crave platform into a bilingual service.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I understand what you are telling me and I am aware of all your achievements. That's great.

However, when you tell me that you are doing more than what the regulations require, the results we actually see give me the impression that, on the contrary, the regulations should be tightened up even more in order to make you better serve the regions, which are currently being neglected.

What I would like to hear you say is while it is true that, in the regions where you have cut journalist positions for various reasons, such as the sale of a radio station, you will start investing and hiring journalists, because regional media coverage should not be broadcast from a big city.

[Mirko Bibic]

The media ecosystem is in a state of upheaval in Canada, Quebec and across North America.

To ensure the sustainability of news broadcasting, the regulatory playing field must be levelled and web giants operating in Canada must be required to contribute to the Quebec and Canadian media ecosystem. That is how we will ensure long-term news coverage in the regions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I now go to Niki Ashton for the NDP for two and a half minutes, please.

Please go ahead, Niki.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think we've seen on full display here the extent to which corporate Canada is disconnected and, frankly, arrogant. The sheer audacity to come before this committee, complain that refusing to show up until the end of May isn't avoiding accountability and then insist that more support from government is necessary, while millions of Canadians are struggling and thousands of your workers are laid off, boggles the mind.

Let's take a moment to combat fake news and look at the facts, and not the ones on the “Facts matter” page of your website. I have a copy here. Point number 10 is directed at us members of the committee, clarifying why you told us it would take almost three months for you to show up here. The reality is that government regulates your industry, both in terms of broadcasting and telecommunications, and this committee oversees that work. We were clear and we have been clear that you needed to be here much sooner.

Let's get to the main issues. Over an eight-month period, Bell eliminated 6,000 jobs, including February's announcement of 4,800 job cuts. At the same time, you announced an increase in dividend cheques for shareholders. You claimed that Bell was forced into the decision to fire so many workers because the federal government has been slow to deliver help. You've been quoted as saying, “we continue to face a difficult economy and government and regulatory decisions that undermine investment in our networks [and] fail to support our media business in a time of crisis”.

Where I come from, a crisis is wildfires. It is thousands of people losing their jobs, kind of like the ones who used to work for Bell Media, whom you fired. Who is in crisis, Mr. Bibic? Is it you with your millions of dollars of compensation or the workers you just fired?

[Mirko Bibic]

Chair, it is my pleasure to answer those questions. I keenly wanted to be before this committee on March 19, and I had committed to that. In fact, I had been in front of the industry committee on March 18. It was the committee who rescheduled my appearance. I'm here, and I always am eager to have a public policy discourse, as I mentioned earlier.

Again, with respect to dividends, these dividends benefit ordinary—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

My question is about the crisis. Who is in crisis? Is it you or is it the thousands of workers you laid off?

[Mirko Bibic]

What's undeniable is that the Canadian media ecosystem is in crisis. One only need ask Postmedia and SaltWire and print journalism in the country and our direct traditional media competitors—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Bibic.

We've all heard from Bell Media workers who have lost their jobs. I think it's pretty clear that they're the ones facing the crisis.

Your board recently gave you a 20% raise. If you truly feel for the thousands of workers you laid off, would you consider taking a 9% reduction in your own salary?

[Mirko Bibic]

As I mentioned earlier, the—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Yes or no.

[Mirko Bibic]

—executive ranks have been thinned out significantly since I became CEO, because we are always vigilant around costs and around the number of executives we have. That's resulted in a 40% decrease in compensation for the direct reports of the CEO.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'll take that as a no.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. We're over time.

Now I will go to the Conservatives for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Bibic, I just want to be really clear here. My question is with regard to the federal labour standards having to do with termination, layoff or dismissal. My question is not whether or not you gave the employees adequate notice, but whether or not you gave the government adequate notice.

According to the group termination clause, you must give 16 weeks' notice before the termination of employment takes effect, and you must give that notice to the labour program's head of compliance and enforcement and immediately send a written copy to the Government of Canada.

I am curious if that was done.