Canadian Heritage Committee on May 7th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

How are the various institutions moving to address the risk of structural shortfalls going forward, and how does CBC/Radio-Canada compare?

[Catherine Tait]

I think we're all struggling with the structural issues.

When we look at Google, Facebook, Netflix or Amazon, which have penetrated our market with no or few regulatory obligations, we are really at a loss, to be honest. We're doing our very best every day to maximize our impact and to maintain services for our audiences, but there are really no quick fixes here unless we are willing to stand up and say it's time for the digital giants to give back.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

With regard to some of the job losses we've seen, how many jobs become vacant in an average fiscal year?

[Catherine Tait]

That's a good question. We probably have about 500 positions, either through resignation or through retirement, that become available in any given year.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Simply put, there's a regular churn of CBC employees who may come and go.

[Catherine Tait]

Absolutely.

If I may say—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Catherine Tait]

—in the past, CBC/Radio-Canada had an employee body of about 10,000. Today, we're at 7,500. Of our budget, 90% is dedicated to our workforce. If something hits us, like economic hardship or financial hardship, the only lever we have is through workforce adjustment—just to be clear.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Atwin.

I'll now go to our third round, beginning with Tom Kmiec for the Conservatives.

You have five minutes, Mr. Kmiec.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Let's talk first about francophones outside Quebec. When I go door to door in my riding and I tell people that the CBC's funding is going to be cut, they are only very rarely not happy to hear it. However, when I tell francophones in my riding that there will be no budget cuts at Radio-Canada, but there are discussions about a potential merger, that concerns them. La Presse told us that a source who is well informed about the issue who requested anonymity has confirmed that this transformation plan for competing with the digital giants exists.

Ms. Tait, you were almost categorical when you said the two services would not be merged, and yet other comments made by Mr. Dubé on the radio and in the press indicate that this big question is going to be considered by the board of directors. So where does the truth lie? Will this issue be considered, yes or no?

[Catherine Tait]

No.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

So the board of directors is not going to consider it—

[Catherine Tait]

Merging the two services is not part of our deliberations at all. We are talking about harmonizing services, technologies and platforms and solutions of that nature, but we are not talking about content.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

You see why there is a problem.

[Catherine Tait]

Merging content is not on the table at all.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It is not just content. When you say “harmonize”, that can be synonymous with “merge”. So what are we talking about?

This is what Mr. Dubé said:The next CEO will be the one deciding these major questions, but behind [our deliberations] there is really the wise use of public funds, and Canadians expect us to use money efficiently. They expect to have quality programming in French and English, but they also expect us to be an organization that does not duplicate resources just for the fun of duplicating resources.

Where is there “duplication” of resources at the moment? Is it in programming?

[Catherine Tait]

I am going to ask Mr. Dubé to answer.

[Marco Dubé]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my thinking on that point, Mr. Kmiec.

We are currently looking into how we are organized for continuing the digital transition in the very long term. The editorial independence of both Radio-Canada and the CBC is extremely precious and we are going to protect it, because that is what preserves the distinctiveness of each of the media in its own market. That is the key to our success.

However, CBC/Radio-Canada has been one company for almost 90 years, and over those years we have always shared resources, because that is a wise and efficient way of spending the public funds we are given to produce programming. What we need to do now is imagine how that works in a digital universe.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Mr. Dubé, a series of articles published in La Presse talked about the fact that Radio-Canada and the CBC have a lot of services in common, as you said: financial administration, human resources, equipment, technology, buildings and infrastructure. So what is left that would not be affected by this grand merger plan?

You are using a synonym, the idea of harmonization. As a francophone outside Quebec, however, I understand that the board of directors is going to be considering a merger of Radio-Canada and the CBC.

[Marco Dubé]

There are still several places in the organization where we could work more closely. That does not relate to programming; it relates to the technologies, and here I am talking about the technologies that will be used to build the future, not the technologies of the past.

Official language minority communities are a perfect example of how the CBC and Radio-Canada can collaborate. The reason we are able to offer services in French in communities outside Quebec is that we are able to make the most of the resources of stations where francophones and anglophones work alongside one another to produce distinct, independent and different programming that responds appropriately to the needs of each of the markets.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I am going to ask you the question again: What is the board of directors going to be considering this fall, exactly? You have talked about new software and new technologies, but you told the press that infrastructure was already being shared. What I want to know is what is going to be considered by the board of directors.

[Marco Dubé]

It is too early to tell you what the board of directors is going to be considering this fall. The plan is not yet finished—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I am not asking you what it is going to be considering—

[Marco Dubé]

—and deliberations are still ongoing.