Canadian Heritage Committee on May 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Everyone looks so very far away with the new rules.

Welcome to meeting number—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

My apologies, but I have a brief point of order.

We started a little bit late, but I'm hoping that we'll have the full two hours with Ms. Tait, if she's kind enough to stay for the full two hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, we will have the full two hours.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Welcome to meeting number 118 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I want to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motions adopted by the committee on December 7, 2023, and March 19, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of job cuts announced at CBC/Radio-Canada.

Before we begin, I want to remind all members and other meeting participants in the room of the following preventative procedures.

To prevent disruptive and potentially harmful audio feedback incidents that can cause injuries, all in-person participants are reminded to keep their earpieces away from all microphones at all times.

As indicated in the communiqué from the Speaker's office to all members on Monday, April 29, the following measures have been taken to prevent audio feedback incidents.

All earpieces have been replaced by a new model that reduces the possibility of feedback. The new earpieces are black, whereas the former earpieces were grey. Please only use a black approved earpiece.

By default, all unused earpieces will be unplugged at the beginning of the meeting.

When you're not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the middle of the sticker for this purpose that you will find on the table; there's a little round sticker with a funny looking thing that I think is representative of an earpiece.

Please consult the cards on the table for guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. There's a little card here called “Guidelines for Meeting Participants”.

The room layout has been adjusted to increase the distance between microphones and reduce the chance of feedback from an ambient earpiece.

These measures are in place so we can conduct our business without interruption and protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters, because we have had some serious incidents involving interpreters with regard to this issue.

I want to make a few comments for the benefit of members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Please go through the chair when you're asking or answering questions. For members in the room, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function in the chat room.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses.

We welcome once again Ms. Catherine Tait, who is president and chief executive officer of CBC/Radio-Canada, and Marco Dubé, chief transformation officer and executive vice-president, people and culture.

Ms. Tait will have up to five minutes for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

Ms. Tait, I think you know how this works. Somebody's going to ask you a question, and depending on what round we are in, we're going to tell you how much time everyone has for questions and answers. Thank you.

I invite you, Ms. Tait, to begin your remarks.

[Catherine Tait, President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm pleased to be here to provide an update on CBC/Radio-Canada to the committee.

We shared with you a letter back in March to clarify the facts about our financial situation. Since then, our financial outlook has improved. Last December's estimated shortfall of $125 million for fiscal year 2024-25 has been reduced to about $20 million. This reduction is due to steps we have taken, including significant cuts to our operational costs, the elimination of 205 vacant positions and 141 occupied positions, and the additional $42-million investment in the recent federal budget. This will allow us to maintain our services and to manage this year without further job cuts to balance our budget.

However, to be clear, we are not out of the woods. You have heard it from other witnesses: All Canadian media organizations face serious challenges from a digital world ruled by global players who simply do not share the same commitment to our country's interests.

I believe this is what this committee should consider today. How will we—here in Canada—support our own media ecosystem when the dominant players are leveraging global revenues with little regard for the needs of our local communities?

We saw it last summer when Meta blocked Canadian news in the middle of a national fire emergency, when communities facing evacuation desperately needed up-to-date information.

Canadians are spending more and more time on digital platforms. Canadian media, broadcasters and newspapers are subject to laws and regulations as well as established standards of accuracy, impartiality and balance. Foreign digital platforms operate in Canada without any of these obligations.

There's another problem. The more time that Canadians spend on foreign platforms, the less they are finding out about their own country, the challenges we share and the things we have in common. That mutual understanding is the glue that keeps societies together.

We believe that the role for the public broadcaster is to connect Canadians to ensure that they know what's going on in their communities and across the country. I'd like to quickly give you just a few examples of what CBC/Radio-Canada does to strengthen these national conversations.

Our presence in communities means that we share local stories with the entire country. We've been shifting resources to expand that presence to places like Kingston, Nanaimo, Grand Prairie and Lethbridge. It's a start, but there are still 35 communities with populations of over 50,000 that don't have a local CBC/Radio-Canada presence.

We present big nation-building events like the Olympics and Paralympics, the ADISQ gala and the Junos. These events bring Canadians together in the millions and they showcase the incredible talent we have in this country.

We're committed to reaching young Canadians and newcomers where they are. That's why we launched Collab, our partnership with hundreds of libraries across the country. We host media literacy programs, teach podcasting and video production and introduce new audiences to Canadian music, books and other great programming. We're the only media in Canada offering children kids' news in both English and French on digital, on TikTok, on YouTube and in the classroom. It helps them decipher their world and learn how to develop digital smarts and critical thinking about the news.

We showcase uniquely Canadian stories. Lakay Nou on Radio-Canada is winning praise for its portrayal of Montreal’s Haitian-Canadian community. Bones of Crows is the first indigenous drama in the history of television produced in English, French and Cree.

Still Standing takes Canadians to small towns they may never have heard of and shows us how much we all have in common. No one else does this.

Just this morning, we announced our latest project, Public Spaces Incubator, a first ever collaboration between four public broadcasters—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Can you please wrap up, Ms. Tait. Your time is up.

[Catherine Tait]

—to develop solutions to make online conversations safer for all of us.

Our focus is simple: Keep Canadians informed, build trust in public institutions, strengthen democracy and protect and promote Canadian culture.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now we begin the questions round, and we start with the Conservatives for a six-minute round. The six minutes include the questions and the answers.

We are starting with Mrs. Thomas for the Conservatives for six minutes, please.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Tait, on December 4, you announced that 800 jobs would be cut from the CBC. You said that 600 individuals would be fired, and 200 vacancies would not be filled, totalling 800.

At that time, you were asked whether or not executives would be given bonuses for 2023. You said that you weren't ruling it out. When you came to this committee, you confirmed once again that you were not ruling it out. In fact, you confirmed that a decision would be made by the end of March.

Now it's May, so I'm curious. Are you going to be awarded a bonus for 2023?

[Catherine Tait]

As I said at the time, Madam Chair, that we have a process that is very rigorous. After internal deliberations with the board of directors at our June board meeting, once we've had a chance to present the audited financial statements, there will be a discussion and we will inform employees at that time of the decision that is taken.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Ms. Tait, an access to information request was put forward by the Taxpayers Federation asking for those 2023 bonus amounts. The CBC responded by saying that they would provide those, but not until May 10. Today is May 7.

I'm curious if three days prior you would be able to give those numbers here. I'm sure you have them. You just have not agreed to release the documents yet. However, I did write you a letter—I gave you a heads-up—so I'm curious if you'd share them here.

[Catherine Tait]

I thank the honourable member from Lethbridge for the opportunity to clarify a lot of misinformation that has been circulating regarding performance pay in 2022-23.

To be clear, CBC/Radio-Canada has—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm sorry, Ms. Tait. I think there might have been a misunderstanding. I'm not asking about 2022. I'm asking about 2023.

[Catherine Tait]

Is that fiscal year 2023-24?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm asking about fiscal year 2023. That decision with regard to bonuses was made in “March”. Those are your words. You told this committee that those decisions would be made—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Just for clarification, is Ms. Thomas asking about fiscal year 2022-23 or 2023-24? This is just for the avoidance of doubt.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

That's not a point of order.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's not a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think he's clarifying the question, so it's a point of clarification.

I think Ms. Tait wishes to know what year you're referring to. Years go from one year to another, April to April.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I trust that my time was stopped.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, the time was stopped.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I'm referring to fiscal year 2023, which ended in March of 2024.